416 stainless steel-?

[jonwelder]

Dear Ed, with the rising cost of nickel silver bar stock for knife guards, (when you can find it) I was told to switch to 416 stainless bar stock. I make full tang knives, and make a split guard to pass around the blade, then solder in place. I have had great success with this using nickel silver, by leaving the nickel a little taller than the blade and soldering it, it all blends together when I sand it down. I have never used 416 for anything yet,, the suppliers tell me it is real easy to work, but no one can give me advice on soldering it. On my full tang knives, I do not use solder at all, just rely on a real tight fit between blade and guard, so 416 would work for that, no problem. Got any ideas for soldering stainless? --Thanks--Jon
(you can see my full tang/solder job on my web site)

[jonwelder]

I meant to say, "I don't solder my "hidden tang" knives, just good, tight fit... Jon

[Ed Caffrey]

Hi Jon!

I use a lot of 416 for guards. It is not that dissimilar to nickel, except in the finishing dept. If your using it for slotted guards on full tang knives, I would recommend "pinning" 416 in place and then soldering. Whereas nickel silver compresses somewhat and can be "molded" to fit the tang tightly, not so with 416.....at least not to the degree nickel silver can be.

I think the biggest difference between the two is the finishing. Often times you can leave nickel at about a 400 grit finish, and then buff it to a mirror. With 416 your going to have to go to 800 or 1200 grit, then polish, otherwise you will be able to see all the tiny sanding scratches, and they WILL NOT come out with buffing.

One final word. Make sure IF you pin the 416 guard(s) in place, that you use 416 pin stock to do so. I know that might sound like a no brainer, but you would not believe the people I've forgotten to tel that to, who later are upset with me because the thought they could use nickel silver pin stock and it not show.

[jdm61]

Ed....do you heat treat your 416? I switched over to 300 series stainless from NS a while back and have been very pleased with it. i sand it to 600 and get a very attractive fine "satin" finish.

[Ed Caffrey]

I don't. even though 416 is heat treatable, the best you can get out of it is Rc 38-40, and although a lot of folks heat treat it because its suppose to increase the rust resistance, I've not seen a big enough difference between non heat treated, and heat treated to make it worth my effort.


My hats off to you for using 300 series! I just flat hate that stuff! Every time I see green (the color code for 304) on the end of a piece of barstock....I cringe!!

[jonwelder]

Thanks Ed for the info, I'm using 400 degree solder from Pops supply, I hope this will work as nice as the nickel,, another thing, I'm using old 3/32" stainless welding rod, (just knock off the flux and clean) for my stainless pins, is the idea to match the softness, or just to have everything stainless? Thanks for the help guys, I'm getting my confidence back,, it's hard to switch when something works so good! -----Jon Moore

[jdm61]

Originally Posted by Ed Caffrey

I don't. even though 416 is heat treatable, the best you can get out of it is Rc 38-40, and although a lot of folks heat treat it because its suppose to increase the rust resistance, I've not seen a big enough difference between non heat treated, and heat treated to make it worth my effort.


My hats off to you for using 300 series! I just flat hate that stuff! Every time I see green (the color code for 304) on the end of a piece of barstock....I cringe!!

I must be using 303 because the bar end is red. Itis whatever type of 300 the knife supply shops are selling. I just bought some 416 at the FKA shw from Sheffield, but Ihaven't used any of it yet other than some pinstock. What don't you like about 304?

[Ed Caffrey]

Jon,

For me the main reason to use the same type of pin stock as the guard stock is so the pin will not be visible in the finished product. If the two materials are not the same, no matter what you do, you WILL see the pin once the knife is finished.



jdm,

Any of the 300 series stainless materials just make me cringe. Compared to Nickel silver or 416 they are incredibly hard to solder, much more difficult to work (cut, file, grind, or shape) and much more difficult to finish.

Another aspect for me personally is the ability to engrave the material. 300 series SS engraves terribly. Rather than getting nice smooth cut lines, it tends to come out in chunks (chunks relative to the size of the engraved lines). Nickel Silver does the same thing when it comes to engraving.

[jdm61]

Ah.....well as I neither solder nor engrave then I guess that is why I haven't had any problems with 300 series I have noticed that it doesn't mill as cleanly as 1018, so I have to mill less and file more. That is similar to my experience with NS. The advatnage that I have found with 1018 is if you have a bit of gapitis you can "pound it shut" if the stock is thin enough. 1018 is my current favorite bcause I can get a cool "French gray" finish on it using cold blue or a vinegar etch or a combination of the two.

[plain ol Bill]

Any of the 300 series of stainless is much harder to work with than 410 or 416 stainless in my humble opinion. 416 machines like a dream, sands to a high finish and is just generally a pleasure to work with and all the 300 series are "gummy" in comparison. I have started to use heat treated 410 for folder liners and really like it. It gets hard enough you can't drill it without carbide and you need to be sure to tap all holes before HT. 410 and 416 are both magnetic so you can surface grind also.

[mete]

Never use color codes for steel ID. Each mill , distributor may have a different color code !!.... Yes the 300 series , even 303 the free machining grade is more difficult to machine [gummy] than the 400 series. 416 [ free machining grade] is better than 410.

[Don Robinson]

I just got in a supply of 416 bar and pins to use for bolsters.

The pins have a very heavy coating of something black. If you run across this with your pin stock, be sure to polish the O.D. of the pins before peening them. The black stuff may show when the pin heads are peened. The pins are also right on size or slightly oversize.

What say you Ed, Master? Does your pin stock look like mine?

By the way, 416 is the only way to go for me also.