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Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

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  #1  
Old 06-05-2002, 10:42 AM
JStevenJ
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1st time Demascus - need advise


Hello,
I have been making knives since the eight grade (I',m 39) but never used any Damascus. I've been doing a lot of research on it and would like some advice on what steels to start with. I'll be using a propane forge that I have almost complete. Forging with a hammer and anvil - not a press. I have a piece of 1" cable I was thinking of using for the first try but would like your advice on the steels to use for the best results for future blades.

Also once I shape the blade by forging, then grind the blade to the final shape how much polishing and buffing is required. Should I finish it like I would a blade from 440C or does it have to that smooth for the etch process?

One more thing. I have found no reference of actually heat treating the blade. Is the blade heat treated by the forging process or is thier further heat treating required after the blade is shaped. Maybe it depends on the type of steels used???

Thanks, Steven
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  #2  
Old 06-05-2002, 04:56 PM
paul harm
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i've never forged cable- maybe some one else can help you there. if you are going to use flat stock try some 1084 & 5160 or maybe some 01. remember to keep the carbon content above .60- as for finish on any damascus i' ve found that the etching to bring out the pattern will remove any scrachs finer than 400 grit. so, forge; clean up the shape to 400; heat treat; etch; then clean off residue with 600 or 0000 steel wool. you can buff but it may make it look different. heat treat by using a magnet to check ac1, then put in the oil. draw it back. use ferric cloride from radio shack- 1 part fc- 3 parts water. put in from 1 to 3 minutes, rinse with water, use some 600 wet/dry to clean a little and see if it should go in for a bit more. kind of trial and error. hope this helps- maybe someone else can help or give some other ideas. this is what has worked for me.
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  #3  
Old 06-05-2002, 05:06 PM
paul harm
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sorry, should have added something. when you make damascus you'r going to need around 2500f depending on carbon content. at this heat the steel will have a grain growth that weakens it. you can also have troubles with worping when heat treating. for this reason try and forge equally on both sides and normalize 2 or 3 times before the heat treat. this will releive the stress from forging and reduce the grain back to what it should be. good luck
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Old 06-05-2002, 06:36 PM
Geno
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Hello Steven,
I make a LOT of cable damascus, and my advise is to find somrthing else to work with for your first damascus.
Cable is dirty, and hard to weld up solid without some practice and a lot of heat.
I built a special forge just for twisting cable.(see Sneak Preview on Tool Time forum)( It is called Turbo Forge)
I suggest you start by stacking some metal first and pressing a billet, it is much easier than twisting a billet tight.
Either way, you are at a good place to ask questions about damascus.
I think I have an old tutorial on the Newbie forum or some other one about cable damascus. I'll see if I can find it for you.
It is step by step instructions for making cable damascus.
I don't recommend it for a first time billet, OK?
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  #5  
Old 06-06-2002, 09:42 AM
sjaqua
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1st time Demascus - need advise


Gene, I hate to disagree, but I must. I started with cable and have found it pretty easy to work with. So far, I have only had two cable billets that had any sort of major weld problem. And both of those were done in outdoor demos (2nd piece welded up just fine, both times. I guess I need to shut-up and just weld, hmmmm?).

Beyond cable I am, myself, just exploring options I can suggest something not to try Don't try 1095 and M2. However for a practice piece 1084 and 1018 makes a good mix to learn to weld on. Once you get good welds on that you try a mix with better knife making potenial and better contrast. 1084/15N20 or 1084/L6 are good mixes. I am told they both will weld pretty easy and have good contrast when etched.

To heat treat Damascus, treat it like a solid piece of what ever the primmary steel in the mix is. If the mix is even, heat treat it like which ever is the harder of the two steels. Having one of the two steels not as hard as the other, is not a problem. In fact it is what gives Damascus it's ledgendary sharpness. As the blade wears, the softer metal wear first. This produces tiny serations in the blade. (at least that is one therory)

Scott B. Jaqua
(smith and book worm)
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  #6  
Old 06-07-2002, 04:48 PM
aiiifish
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1st time Demascus


Just made my first cable damascus. I tried several pieces but was unable to get it to weld with coal. I just bought a propane forge and it worked well. Try Wayne Goddards 50 dollar knife shop. It had alot of good info on cable and talked me through some of the problems.

Gene I'm gonna try your suggestion. Bringing that inch and a quarter cable down to a 5/32 billet took a couple of days {no press or power hammer} and a very sore shoulder. What would be a good mix to start with??
thanks
Steve
Double S Custom
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  #7  
Old 06-08-2002, 08:10 PM
Bob Warner
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Re: 1st time Demascus


There is a trick that you can do to help get cable welded up. Make a die out of angle iron so that it looks like an "M" with is done by placing both pieces together on a flat plate with the points up. Weld them in place on the flat plate. Heat your cable and place it in the die and hammer together. The angle iron will help push the cable together instead of the cable trying to spread out. This works on a press or with hand forging. Just use angle iron of the appropriate size. I use 2" angle iron and stack several pieces of cable together and hit them with the press. This makes for really fast welding of cable. Another thing that will help is just as you remove the cable from the forge, swing it quickly downwards then up to the anvil or press. This swinging will throw out all of the dirt and garbage trapped insode the cable. Whith this junk gone, your welding will be a lot easier.
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Old 06-11-2002, 11:12 AM
Diamond G Knives
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Re: 1st time Demascus


Bob:
Great Idea on the dies, just a question though, if you are not using a press, just a anvil, would you make this a hardie tool to mount in the hardie hole?
or just a flat piece to lay on the anvil.
Thanks
Mike

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  #9  
Old 06-11-2002, 05:36 PM
sjaqua
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Re: 1st time Demascus


Not having a press, Tony of Oso Forge sugested I weld cable in the half round sections of my swage block. I'm going to try that tonight, with some one inch cable that is giving me a problem spreading out as I try to weld the ends.

Scott B. Jaqua
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