"Pattern" welded steel

[Drac]

Hi guys,

I have a couple books on knife making that touch on forging and making damascus steels. They discribe the setting up of billets, welding, folding, ect. I was curious to read more on the subject (just read, not try yet) of how they get the various patterns such as twist, ladder, raindrop, ect. Is/are there books that cover how to make the other patterns?

Thanks for your time,
Jim

[whv]

look for jim hrisoulas' books.
jantz sells them at a discount: http://www.knifemaking.com/

[Drac]

Thanks Wayne,

Ordering it today!

Jim

[Chuck Burrows]

Gene Osborn has two videos on Damascus as well which should be worth checking out. And like Wayne said Dr Jim's books are a must.

Do a google search too on such things as Damascus and pattern welded steel - you will come up with many links some of which you will find of interest.

[Drac]

Thanks Chuck,

I'll be getting Gene's videos when I get down to Texas (save on the S&H ). It will be a long while if ever for me to be able to set up a forge. The house I'm getting is just to small, no basement and there isn't much land (65X130) to set up an out side shop. I'm already converting a spare bedroom to be able to do this and I don't think it will work for a forge, but we'll see.

I'm looking on how to make the various patterns so that I can apply them to mokume. I have a kiln gifted to me and I want to give this a try. I have the Steve Midget?s book and I have gone thru Jon's web site on mokume and he says that anything that can be done with damascus can be done with mokume, so I though I'd read up on how various patterns are done and see if I can apply them.

Thanks again,
Jim

[Chuck Burrows]

Jim-
Take a look back through the Outpost for portable forge plans - I think you'd be surprised how little you need to get started. Tai goos plans for his forgebeque are one example that comes to mind. And for knife making a huge anvil is not needed. There are several thread in there on do it yourself anvils as well.

You might also check out the various threads over on the new Primal Fires (http://pub53.ezboard.com/bprimalfires).

Between the Outpost and Primal Fires there is lots of info on minimalist forging.

[Drac]

Chuck,

I unfortunately also have to deal with:

1) A homeowner?s assoc.

2) A wife (whom I love to distraction) who rolls here eyes at every "new" hobby and

3) Very skinny, weak arms (hey, what can I say I'm a computer geek)

The biggest obstacle being to HOA. Thanks for the information. I will go down to those areas and check them out. I might try it in the future if I can work around this or move to a different area, I would like to know about it just to have a better idea how forging feels for a better understanding on knife making, but I will probably stick mostly with grinding.

Thanks for your time and help,
Jim

[Daniel J]

You'd be surprised at how little smoke you get from a chacoal forge. The grinder is both messier and noisier. There's a little bit of a smell (just like a campfire,) but you could throw some meat on every once in a while and pretend you're BBQing...

[C L Wilkins]

Originally posted by Drac
Chuck,

I unfortunately also have to deal with:

1) A homeowner?s assoc.

2) A wife (whom I love to distraction) who rolls here eyes at every "new" hobby and

3) Very skinny, weak arms (hey, what can I say I'm a computer geek)

The biggest obstacle being to HOA. Thanks for the information. I will go down to those areas and check them out. I might try it in the future if I can work around this or move to a different area, I would like to know about it just to have a better idea how forging feels for a better understanding on knife making, but I will probably stick mostly with grinding.

Thanks for your time and help,
Jim

Jim,
It appears that you and I share many common opportunities for coming up with workable solutions while living in suburbia. Remember, it is a HOBBY, not a business. That is important. You can't run a business out of your house. A hobby is admissible.

A propane forge is "do-able" in our living conditions. If you don't want to leave it set up then put it on rollers. A metal table works well. My garage is my shop, I forge in the backyard. Use a little common sense when it comes to forging. Sunday mornings are a big no-no. Evenings until about 8 or 8:30 are usually OK.

Another problem we have is storage. The blue haired deed restriction nazis frown on any type of storage building. We all have those wooden fences. I am building storage right on the fence and using pickets for the paneling or wall. I am building it the entire length of the fence and it will not be higher than the fence. It blends right into the fence. This is good storage for the lawnmower and other stuff along with some of the forging stuff if you don't want to leave it left out. This is an unconventional means of storage but it works. As long as it can't be "seen from the street" then it should be OK. They are worried about "eyesores". Keep everything neat looking.

If you have neighbors that will talk to you (my neighborhood is so much like "King of the Hill" that it is not a problem, no kidding we have neiborhood barbeques, parties and whatnot) then let them know that you are a metal artist of sorts. It just so happens that you are working an art knife if they get curious and hazzard to venture over. Let them do some forging, just don't let them hurt themselves.

The key to our situation is to be resourceful and don't do anything to upset anyone. You know as well as I do that they can and will "shut you down". For those that are reading this and don't know, the home owners associations in Texas wield quite a bit of authority.

Ah, the suburbs! We spend our early lives trying to get out of the place where we grew up and when we finally do, we long to go back.

For the very skinny and weak arms, start with a smaller hammer!


Craig

[Don Halter]

Like Craig said, it can be done. I started forging while we lived at a condo. The HOA was extremely anal about little things. Most of it was geared towards eyesores from the road and things to keep the college kids in check. I used a coal forge on a 10' x 15' patio/backyard, and limited my work to early evenings. I always invited the nieghbors over to "check it out" and never had any complaints. The HOA assumed it was a BBQ/Smoker and applied those rules (minimum distance from overhangs and walls, etc)...and I never corrected them ! My storage was a couple home built tables with walls that I put things under. The only water sensitive parts of my set-up were the hair-dryer blower, tools and the railroad track anvil. I simply brought the dryer inside, oiled the track and kept metal stuff, flux and other tools in the large rubbermaid tubs under tables.

Here was what I used:
http://www.100megsfree3.com/kragaxe/as/Forge.html

[Laredo7mm]

hey, just a note on your mokume. I have made some using copper and nickel silver. I fuse them in my forge (that is in my basement) between SS pressure plates.

The biggest thing is to get your materials clean before your stack them. Secondly you can do all the patterns in Mokume that you can do in steel, but I think it is much more difficult than working in steel. The steel I use in Damascus is 15N20 and C1095. Maybe they are just more forgiving types of steel, but twisting Copper and NS is a pain. I don't know if they are red short or what but it will crack/shear way before steel does.

Multibar twist patterns are also dificult since there will be areas where it is copper to copper and NS to NS that need to be refused together and the same metals don't want to fuse together. I use Phos Copper rod and braze the bars together when doing a multibar twist.

Anyway, just thought I would throw in my $0.02. Mokume is some really cool stuff and the material combinations, patterns, and colors are almost unlimited. Have fun and make sure to show some of your work when you get some done.

Here is my latest piece of copper and NS mokume in a Chevron twist that will be used in a colaboration hunter over on BF:

[Geno]

Looks like a lot of work went into that little piece of metal.
I salute an artist!
I like coming up with that "different" kind of stuff, just because no one else is doing it. Thanks for sharing the info, and the pic.

Us old dogs like to learn too, ya know?:cool:
Be blessed!

[J.Arthur Loose]

That's a nice looking piece of mokume.

Man, guys, when I read threads like this I remember why I live in the middle of the woods. Homeowner's associations... yikes.

[Drac]

Laredo,

Thanks for the pic, it looks great. Something for me to shot for.

Jon,

Even though I'm a city dweller to the heart, I do envy you. To have the ability to hold a circle without someone going nuts around me or hiding would be great.

Jim

[Bob Warner]

5 acres out in the country is where I live. No city limits to deal with. When I wanted to build my shop, I called the county about a permit to build. They ask me why I though I needed a permit.

I built the shop, wired it and nobody cared.

I can forge, play stereo or anything else 24hrs a day without complaints from anyone. I hate the city.

The only thing about being able to do what you want is you have to be willing to let your neighbors do what they want. My neighbors have a bunch of old cars they work on and a race car that gets revved up at midnight sometimes but they try to be quiet.