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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 06-11-2014, 03:03 PM
Jacktheknife Jacktheknife is offline
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File Jig... for beveling blades

Ray...


I have learned that I need a 'file jig' for beveling my blades.
I've seen pictures of them them on youtube but my computer is out of hours till the next months billing cycle. It can't play youtube.
I do have a file guide but it says not to use it on ones Grizzly.
Its a file guide not a Grizzly guide!
I'll try and take two 3/32" blade blanks, {annealed 1095} and drill holes in it for bolts, harden and temper it and use them together as a guide.

A hardened and tempered file guide that can be used on a Grizzly but it needs to make [exact angles!]
Mine won't do that.

I am learning that people use [file guides which set the angle of the bevel] and that is just what I need!
The missing skill to making knives. I can do everything else but beveling.
That is how they get perfect angles on their knife blade bevels.

I have a check coming in 5-6 days and a Gun Show coming in 30 days!
And would buy one if I could get advise on which one is appropriate for 3/32" steel / 5-6" knives. This would enable me to make perfect bevels wouldn't it?


Help!


Jack the Knife

Last edited by Jacktheknife; 06-11-2014 at 03:14 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-11-2014, 03:45 PM
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Hunter10139 Hunter10139 is offline
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I'm not Ray but here is an example of a filing jig thats a pretty simple and cheap build. It's straight from Dancom's website(hope you don't mind Dan). Also a grinding jig can be pretty simple too. Just take a rectangular block, say a section of 2X4 or 4X4, and drill a hole through one of the faces of the block, near an edge. Then run a threaded bolt, or piece of all thread rod through that hole and screw on a nut to adjust the angle of the block. Then, clamp the knife on the front face of the block and voila you have a grinding jig that you can make minor adjustments with. I've included a pic of this jig too. Excuse the poor paint drawing skills.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg grinding jig_600x255.jpg (7.5 KB, 101 views)
File Type: jpg Bevel jig_600x450.JPG (54.0 KB, 135 views)


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  #3  
Old 06-11-2014, 04:06 PM
Jacktheknife Jacktheknife is offline
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Hunter10139


I don't know Dan but I appreciate the picture of your guide.
I don't understand it but I'm going to study it tonight. I see that it holds one end of the file at an angle which keeps the 'bevel-level' the same. It doesn't look like the file is long enough to reach the blade but then I am kinda stupid. Something like that is just what I need.

I can profile, drill, sand and affix handles, harden and temper fine, rail road spike knives are no problem, but beveling is a totally new thing to me.
I need a jig for beveling and this looks like a good one, how long have you used it?
And is it home made?


Thank you...


Jack
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  #4  
Old 06-11-2014, 04:22 PM
Kevster Kevster is offline
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Here's mine, it's simple.
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  #5  
Old 06-11-2014, 06:01 PM
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DanCom DanCom is offline
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Hi Jack,

I made three knives with the bevel jig. It is useful to train one keeping the pitch of the file just right.

Some may not see value in such a jig and proclaim that you should be able to free-hand this process. If it brings decent enough results to keep you interesting in making knives, then it's worth something. Eventually you will get motorized and another set of skills will be acquired. :-)

Good luck!
Dan
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  #6  
Old 06-11-2014, 06:16 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Jack,

Tread carefully here. First, you don't need a guide to do bevels. Some guys use them but even more guys do not. Nothing wrong with using one but they do limit you a bit to doing only what that particular guide is designed to do. If you learn to grind or file freehand then you don't have those limitations.

Beyond that, you are probably getting confused because you are looking at three different types of guides for three different purposes. The first type you mentioned was one that you would like to have so that you could use your Grizzly to do the bevels. Those do exist but they are quite expensive if you buy a commercial one, about $250 the last time I looked. Of course, there are simpler ones that you might build yourself. All of the guides that you might use to grind bevels on your Grizzly will take some effort to set up and use. They are not really plug and play devices. In the end, they may be a little easier than grinding freehand at first but learning to grind freehand should be your goal.

The jig you see from Dan is obviously intended to use by hand with files rather than with a powered grinder. Dan may have just quickly put the file and blade on there just to make that picture. To really use it either a longer file would be needed or move the blade up some. Take this stuff as a general guide line rather than literally.

The third guide you see from Kevster is not for grinding bevels, it is for setting a plunge cut. It is usually used with files and is the most common example of the jig normally called a file guide. These guides can also be used with your Grizzly to set your plunge cut but the file guide will probably get ground up a little at the same time.

There really is no big deal to grinding a bevel, especially if you start with a full flat ground blade. You should do at least one with a file to teach yourself the process. Then you can do the same process on the Grizzly only much faster. There are many tutorials around and lots of confusing and conflicting information on grinding. Here is what may be the simplest explanation of grinding a full flat ground blade with a file that you'll ever get, and this is true whether you grind with a jig or freehand:

Jack, do ONE blade start to finish. You always try to do too much at one time, stop it!

Scribe a center line on the edge of the blade.

Secure the blade so that it can't move (clamp to table, vise, whatever works for you)

Use a good file all along the edge on one side until you almost reach the center line.

Now, go over it again and widen that grind you just did moving it another 1/8 or 1/4 inch higher.

Keep doing that until your grind reaches but does not cut into the blade's spine

You now have a full flat grind all the way across your blade.

With a good file and a 3" or 4" blade you should be able to easily do this in less than 30 minutes. On a grinder it will go much faster than that. And, not once during this process did you have to worry about exactly what angle you were grinding or exactly how you were holding the file....


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 06-11-2014 at 06:20 PM.
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  #7  
Old 06-11-2014, 08:05 PM
Jacktheknife Jacktheknife is offline
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Ray,


Wow! That is so clearly explained so that I actually understand it!
Half way, 1/8" below half way, scribe lines on the blade, here and there... NO!

File from the edge to 'almost' the spine! I understand!
There is no way it can be confusing or explained any better. Thank you Ray!
One wouldn't need to even see it. A dimes thickness on the edge and I have seen pictures of blades that stop the bevel "almost at the spine." Don't grind the spine.

That picture of Dan's file Guide is exactly like mine.
So one can set the plunge cut with it even though it will wear out the guide. Hmmm...
sounds like a cheap way to learn the skill. I can always get another file guide and use the old one to start plunge cuts. And once the plunge cut is made with the file one can use the Grizzly.


I try it tonight...


Thanks...
Jack

Last edited by Jacktheknife; 06-11-2014 at 10:18 PM.
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  #8  
Old 06-12-2014, 08:59 AM
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Hunter10139 Hunter10139 is offline
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Wait, why would it wear out the guide? In the picture he has a long rod clamped to the file. The rod is what sits in the guides and the only contact the file makes is with the knife. So all he's doing is picking one of those holes to stick the rod(that is attached to the file) into. Then you can do exactly what Ray said.

Check out trollsky on Youtube and watch his video on grinding a bevel when you are able. That's where I saw the jig for using a grinder.

Also, sorry for putting the pictures in the wrong order. Ray's right, the first jig was for using the grizzly and the second was for hand filing.


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  #9  
Old 06-13-2014, 08:34 AM
Jacktheknife Jacktheknife is offline
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Hunter10139,


Sorry, I meant the file guide, not the picture you posted.



Jack
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  #10  
Old 06-17-2014, 03:49 PM
Jacktheknife Jacktheknife is offline
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Gentlemen,


I found a youtube video about bevel grinding.
The guys name is Trollskyy and he knows how to bevel a knife with a jig in a very impressive manner. I copied my beveling jig from Trollskyy.
My worse problem was to grind the edge of the blade away on the Grizzly. Really, the edge would be 1/4" 'narrower' than the handle.
My bevel grinding jig does away with that problem and grinds the bevel with the edge a dimes thickness and grinds up to about the center line scribe mark, does it in 15 minutes rather than all day too!
Maybe I could go from there by hand or... maybe I can make another jig that grinds between below the middle scribe mark and the spine, then go from there by hand. But wait!

I decided that 13 years is too long of a time to learn beveling and decided that I needed personal instruction so I E-mailed a knife maker I met at a gun show years ago, Old Mickey Kaehr. He said he is to busy to help me learn beveling but sent the very youtube video by Trollskyy that I had been studying! Mickey said that was how he sets up his beveling jig anyway, that, and what he learned from books.
So first I got out my knife making books:
Wayne Goddard and David Boye and it helped.
I haven't read them in years and immediately noticed many things I had overlooked.
I found a design for a 'blade wedge test jig' and a 'grinding board'...
to clamp ones blade to which was narrow but real sturdy. Made of a cut down 2" x 8" with the end narrowed to about 3" x 4" and 'smoothed off'...
your chair right there.

I E-mailed another knife maker I found in Dallas county and he said he would be happy to show me how to bevel! And he said: {and get this Ray...}
" have always done my beveling by hand only, no jigs!"
So I told him give me two more weeks till my next disability check comes and I'll contact him and we can set something up when he is in the shop. {It is hot summertime}

I have a good jig which will get the bevel started and I've enough time to make another which grinds higher up and practice freehand grinding with the edge done so as not to booger it up and with most of the stock removed, with a blade wedge test jig, blue lay out dye and a scribe freehand is not as scary.


Thank you...


Jack the Knife

Last edited by Jacktheknife; 06-17-2014 at 04:42 PM.
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