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  #1  
Old 02-02-2016, 06:58 AM
Ta2bill Ta2bill is offline
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Early Model 1-8" question

Can anyone put a date on this knife by looking at the various clues? I'm estimating a mid fifties timeframe......

Last edited by Ta2bill; 02-12-2016 at 07:59 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-03-2016, 10:35 PM
jeepster jeepster is offline
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Yes mid fifties! Hahahahahahahahah! Got it right this time didn't I Bill!
Ronnie
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  #3  
Old 02-04-2016, 07:59 AM
Ta2bill Ta2bill is offline
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You da man! lol
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  #4  
Old 02-04-2016, 09:34 AM
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Jacknola Jacknola is offline
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The blade stamp seems to be a type-2. The earliest semi-documented use of that stamp that I've found is about 1957. But that isn't a hard date because I did not spend a lot of time on the start date for that stamp. I was more interested in the ending date in the 1960s, which was definite in early 1966 and may have been a year earlier for the type-2 stamp.

There is a lot more that can be done with blade stamps. Using documented knives, the stamps can be overlain to check for small variations in fonts and spacing. Especially in the 1950s this could probably lead to some useful data... however, I am primarily interested in the 1960s.

On another subject, a beautiful document model 2 with Heiser-Randall stamped sheath is shown on KTF. The knife is confirmed ordered and delivered in 1964. We have documented that the last of the Heiser-Randall sheaths were made by Heiser in early-mid 1963, thereafter Johnson became the supplier.

However it is already documented that some less popular models, particularly the model-2, were still occasionally being shipped with Heiser-Randall sheaths up to a year later. This is probably because the shelves were already stocked with Heiser-Randall sheaths when Johnson took over full production, and the model-2s were not in high demand in the early '60s.

I believe I have a composite photo of model-2 knves from the same period, one with Heiser-Randall stamp, one with Johnson brown button, and one with baby-dot snaps, all from the same approximate 1963-64 time period. I'll look for it, and in the meantime, the knife on the other forum is a useful documented data point, and a beautiful knife.
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  #5  
Old 02-04-2016, 10:17 AM
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samg samg is offline
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Thanks Jack.
Which thread is that confirmed 1964 model 2 in over there?
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  #6  
Old 02-04-2016, 04:33 PM
Ta2bill Ta2bill is offline
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Sam, This Old Randall, and the post by Wally.
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  #7  
Old 02-04-2016, 05:46 PM
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samg samg is offline
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Thanks Ta2Bill
I saw it. Very nice knife.
Amusing that Wally stated that he didn't want to "create a controversy" by talking about the sheath.
There will be no controversies, as those who challenged accepted beliefs are gone, banned.
But its good to see Joe call it right.

Great knife Wally, with the provenance, makes it very special.

Regards, Samg

Last edited by samg; 02-04-2016 at 10:56 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-04-2016, 10:30 PM
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Jacknola Jacknola is offline
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Pretty much quoting BoBlade and me and our conclusions in the "Heiser-Johnson grand unification theory," chapter and verse, timing, dates, and characteristics. He has just renamed the "Heiser-Randall west stamp" to "HKL" . Still a "Heiser" though.

Nice to see the acceptance of the truth of the thesis ... but sadly only after a lot of unnecessary ill will, nastiness and multiple bans of people whose only issue was presenting the thesis that now seems to have been accepted.

I'll be interested in seeing Joe's new articles he is promising. Especially in light of what was developed and written here in the Magic Randall line, writtings which defined the Heiser-Johnson Grand Unification Theory. Anyway, the collecting community interested in this era has benefitted. It would be nice if proper attribution is forthcoming. If not? Oh well...guess I wont be that surprised.
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  #9  
Old 02-05-2016, 06:27 AM
Ta2bill Ta2bill is offline
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Jacknola,

I spend all evening re-reading the entire thread on Heiser vs Johnson again, and aside from the head butting, thoroughly enjoyed it. As time goes by and knives come and go, it's nice to have these threads as a refresher course in a hobby that we all enjoy.
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  #10  
Old 02-05-2016, 07:27 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Bill,

That sheath conversation was subsequently moved over to the "Bad and Ugly" forum:

http://www.knifetalkforums.com/ubbth...=126608&page=1

I'm not sure if you knew that............

Note: The information on those threads is for educational purposes only. The argument is closed both on that forum and this forum. Thanks.
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  #11  
Old 02-05-2016, 08:40 AM
Ta2bill Ta2bill is offline
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I did not realize that. I did know that Mitchell put the kabosh to the thread. Thank you.
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  #12  
Old 02-05-2016, 09:03 AM
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Jacknola Jacknola is offline
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Bill, the development of the original theory, including all the supporting documentation, took place on this board and can be found in the long, "Magic Randall" line. It probably could not have happened on the KTF because it likely would have been reduced to confrontation and the study abandoned early on before the proofs were found.

You can go to the conclusions beginning about page 6-8 for a cliff notes summary, but seeing the methodical progression by reading or scanning the whole line can be interesting... The discovery of sheath-stamp orientation and other differing characteristics originated due to the disconnect of dating a pinned wood-handled model 1, the "Magic Randall," and it's sheath. The "Magic Randall" story was simply a fictional attempt to rationalize the disconnect between knife age and sheath.

The subsequent development of the theory using the scientific method is an excellent example of what can be accomplished with collaborative effort instead of confrontation. Unfortunately when the outline of the discovery was moved onto the other board confrontation took over instead of collaboration, though many people including Gary Clinton participated and ultimately accepted the progression.

It was too bad about the confrontation, but the whole now seems to be becoming the norm. Good.

Last edited by Jacknola; 02-05-2016 at 09:06 AM.
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  #13  
Old 02-05-2016, 09:32 AM
Ta2bill Ta2bill is offline
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Sheath Stamp Orientation

I am in total agreement with what I have read thru the years on this orientation. Here is one that I picked up yesterday. What do you guys think?

Last edited by Ta2bill; 02-12-2016 at 07:59 PM.
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  #14  
Old 02-05-2016, 10:16 AM
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samg samg is offline
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To me, definitely Heiser.
1) West orientation stamp
2) Serif number stamps
3) No edge bevel
4) Characteristic blunt end of stone flap
5) Center keeper snap

All definite characteristics of Heiser sheaths.

Just my 2? worth

Regards, Samg
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  #15  
Old 02-05-2016, 11:36 AM
Ta2bill Ta2bill is offline
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I'll take your 2 cents and anybody else's that wants to give it to me! lmao
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