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Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

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  #1  
Old 06-09-2005, 12:04 PM
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B.Finnigan B.Finnigan is offline
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Vintage iron sources (?)

I am getting ready to make a bowie that is authentic as possible. No electric power tools are going to be used, only the tools and techniques of the early 1800's. My only problem is where in tarnation do you get the type of iron or equivalent that was used during that time to make blades? I do not want to have to buy an expensive antique piece only to change it into something that would worth less then the new knife. I have some railroad spikes that are from the early 1850's but that would not be historicaly authentic.

Does anyone know of a source of plain old iron?
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Old 06-09-2005, 01:20 PM
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Well the blade wouldn't be iron, it'd be shear steel, good luck trying to find a new source of that. A few people have experimented with making their own but I don't think anyone is doing it in volume enough to actually sell it. You could try making your own, you'd basically case harden a bunch of thin strips of iron (or mild steel if you're willing to be slightly less historical), then weld those thin strips together into a billet. For double shear steel you'd just fold/cut it and weld it again. Old huge saw blades seems to be a favorite source for shear steel, but it's a matter of luck whether or not you have access to any. If the RR tie is wrought iron, WI from 1850 would be pretty much the same as WI from 1800, neither is suitable for a good blade due to low carbon content but it'd be good for guards.


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Old 06-09-2005, 03:40 PM
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Old barns and farms are a good place to look. Broken tools were seldom left in the field to cause further damage and were stashed to make other things. Over grown clumps of vegitation, looking out of place in a field, will often hide an abandoned pull behind harrow with a life time supply of old blade material.
Antique stores buy whole lots of stuff and have scrap that cannot be passed off as something and will get tossed. Farm auctions often have boxes of old tools and scrap metal that go for a couple bucks.


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Last edited by hammerdownnow; 06-09-2005 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 06-09-2005, 10:31 PM
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I'd use W-1 for the blade Steel and Wrought iron for the furniture.
I heard Darren Ellis will have some wrought iron soon.


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Old 06-09-2005, 11:06 PM
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Thanks all for the suggestions. It may be interesting to hit some antique stores and see what I can flush out of the cobwebs.
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Old 06-10-2005, 10:50 AM
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Ysforge is selling wrought iron at reasonable prices over at bl##e forums.It is exceptionally high quality too.


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Old 06-10-2005, 08:45 PM
Todd Robbins Todd Robbins is offline
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I recently got some wrought iron from Tony at YS Forge and can attest to the quality of it. Tony is a great guy to deal with, as well, and he has some really clean 52100 for sale in round stock.

Why not use some old harrow tooth steel for the blade material? I've got several old harrow teeth and have forged several knives out of it, and it acts like a 10xx steel with plenty of carbon, 1084 maybe. They are fairly easy to find at antique stores/flea markets and are in a good shape to work with.

If you can't find any shear steel (good luck), why not make some "frontier" damascus for the blade? Weld together a bunch of scraps of all different sizes and shapes (make sure you have plenty of carbon content), fold a couple of times, and forge to shape!

Good luck with your project and be sure to let us know what you decide and post some pics of the finished product!

Todd

Last edited by Todd Robbins; 06-10-2005 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 06-10-2005, 09:19 PM
Darren Ellis Darren Ellis is offline
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Hey guys, if anyone's looking for high quality wrought iron, I've got it in stock...we're going to be the distributor for Tony at YS Forge. It's not listed on the website yet, but I'll hopefully have the details up there this weekend sometime. If all goes well, within a few weeks, we'll be carrying it in barstock as well!



-Darren


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  #9  
Old 06-11-2005, 01:42 AM
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Darren
Is YS forge making new Wrought iron? Or is this someone who has found a good source of old stuff? Im looking forward to hearing about it!!

PS
Ill be making an order soon, just need to figure out what goodies I still need for the forge!

God Bless
Mike


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Old 06-11-2005, 09:14 AM
Todd Robbins Todd Robbins is offline
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Mike

Tony at YS Forge is a blacksmith, and scrounged up the wrought iron that he has for sale from different sources over the years. Some is old anchor chain, some is from old bridges. I don't know where it all came from, but it's all old, and the piece I got from him is in great shape.

Todd
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:40 AM
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I had questioned Tony about the wrought iron anchor chain he was selling mainly because it looked so new looking and not like what I was used to seeing. He did the test I suggested and sure enough its the real thing.

I had gone to visit Wayne Goddard last week. If I hadn't know about his by pass surgery I would have never know anything had happend to him. One of a number of things I had left with was iron telegraph wire. He wasn't sure if it was wrought iron or not and I wasn't able to tell after getting it home. Just another sorce of iron if you can locate some.


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  #12  
Old 06-22-2005, 04:43 PM
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I decided to use the old railroad spikes for the steel source. The stuff is nasty to forge to say the least. The amount of scale is incredible. I will use the WI for the fixtures when it arrives (Thanks Darren!).

I have never worked WI before is there anything I should be aware of before hand? I plan on etching the guard and pommel with FC to bring out the grain.

Last edited by B.Finnigan; 06-22-2005 at 04:45 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-22-2005, 11:17 PM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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When you work wrought iron.....work it HOT! Generally what you would consider to be welding temp for carbon/alloy steels is just about the right temp to work wrought. It will let you know if it's too cold....it will crack/split, or just come apart.


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Old 06-23-2005, 10:31 AM
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I was planning on just cutting, sanding/shaping and milling the fixtures. Although it might be interesting though to forge some of it.

I have been a meteorite collector for several years and I have a couple Campo meteorites that are iron/nickel in composition. I saw a special about meteorites on the History channel and the Chinese back in the 1500's forged knives and combat daggers out out of some of the Nantan meteorites. They called it the "metal of the gods" since it came from heaven. The Nantan meteorites have roughly the same iron/nickel alloy that the Campo's do. The patterns on the blades were incredible to say the least. That got my creative juices flowing for a future forging project.

One of my Campo meteorites is over two pounds which would be enough to make two blades out of. The blades obviousley would not have very good strength/flex and edge properties but for display purposes it would be very cool to say the least. Etching would bring out the intricate patterns of the iron nickel. Some internet research turned up two bladesmiths that have used meteorites in their damascus steel.

Pound for pound the Campo meteorites are no more expensive then damascus blanks are so I would not consider it too risky to try. Although most meteorite collectors would want me to burn in hell for doing that to a specimen. the look on thier face would more or less resemble this ---->
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Old 06-23-2005, 01:45 PM
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I am pretty sure i read that you loose all patterns in meteorites when forged.


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