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The Outpost This forum is dedicated to all who share a love for, and a desire to make good knives, and have fun doing it. We represent a diverse group of smiths and knifemakers who bring numerous methods to their craft.

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  #1  
Old 01-14-2007, 07:55 PM
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AndradeArtWorks AndradeArtWorks is offline
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Question Bending/Breaking Blades?

Just curious how many of you have spent time making a blade and then bend it or destroy it via bending to see what type of job you did. I know this is a big test in the ABS, and was curious how (especially when doing knives all by hand tools) one could then bend the blade to see what it's worth.

I am curious to see as I have worked on a blade that caused me some trouble recently, and wanted to see what ya'll thought about the beefits of bending finished blades.

Don Carlos
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Old 01-14-2007, 08:11 PM
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I have destroyed enough in heat treat and I also don't feel compelled to break them for a test.
It is the only way to learn and get better, however. I like to make simple, "quickie" blades with minimal finish work for testing. Some of these blades turned out to make very good working blades. I'm getting a good sense about what works from it.
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  #3  
Old 01-15-2007, 06:17 AM
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stephanfowler stephanfowler is offline
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i intentionally break one every couple months, or every new batch/type of steel I get i will make a couple and break them

and I use nothing but files, if you have good hammer control it's not a whole lot more work
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  #4  
Old 01-15-2007, 02:17 PM
toddhill toddhill is offline
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I think it's definitely important to do. I want to know what kind of abuse my knives can take and I want to see the grain size I'm getting with my heat treat. I started using some L-6 recently and broke a blade to see what was happening. It took a lot of force to break that little blade, much more than I'd ever apply in normal use, and the grain was what I was hoping for. That gives me confidence that I'm doing things right. Otherwise I'm just guessing. If I was fulltime I'm sure I'd break more and really refine my techniques.
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Old 01-15-2007, 02:55 PM
AchimW AchimW is offline
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I've done that from the beginning on and still do it to test new steels and new HT methods. A very good way to get informations about what you do.

Achim
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  #6  
Old 01-15-2007, 03:24 PM
Tai Google Tai Google is offline
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I think most of us have done a good deal of it,... for what ever it's worth.
... as long as we remember...

"A knife is a cutting tool NOT a crow bar.".


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Last edited by Tai Google; 01-15-2007 at 03:30 PM.
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  #7  
Old 01-15-2007, 03:44 PM
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TexasJack TexasJack is offline
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Don Halter did a nice demonstration at one of his hammer-ins showing the changes in grain size through heat treating.


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Old 01-15-2007, 08:14 PM
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Why should our blades be any different than our welds. To test a weld we bend---stretch----pull and cut it in half. We polish the end of the cut and acid etch to see the grain growth and penetration. Blades are no different, in the fact that we are trying to gain control the process. If I get a new steel I normally work through the heat treat process until I have it mastered for that steel. It is your reputation on the line when you make and sell a sub-standard blade. Just my 2 cents worth.


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Old 01-15-2007, 09:09 PM
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Blaine Whitney Blaine Whitney is offline
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I think it's important....it's a good reality check/confidence builder. I've broken a couple now just to check it out. If I have a bigger blade (usually ) I'll destroy a pallet or bust up a hard log. Give it to the wife to try for kitchen stuff. She is an honest critic.


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  #10  
Old 01-16-2007, 08:22 AM
Tai Google Tai Google is offline
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I think what we?re really talking about is testing "steel", "geometry" and "heat treating". Although most of us have and do break test finished blades and knives, it may not be totally necessary in order to test the steel, geometry and heat treating. The important thing to keep in mind is that the test piece should be of a geometry that is close or similar to the type of blade we are trying to make. Testing can be done on plain flat stock, or basic wedged shaped strips. The idea is to understand the material or medium BEFORE we try and make a finished blade from it, and to be able to generally predict the outcome without having to break the finished blade. I don't see how mirror polishing, and putting a handle on a blade could really help with these types of tests.

Testing the overall construction of the knife is quite different than testing the steel, geometry, and heat treating of the blade.

Cutting tests, field testing and other non-destructive tests are also important to consider in any overall knife testing system.

My experience with break testing or destructive testing "totally finished knives", is that it hasn't taught me anything I couldn't have figured out some other way, or that I didn't already know. I always walk away from it asking myself,... "WHY did I just break (or bend) a perfectly good knife?"


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Last edited by Tai Google; 01-16-2007 at 01:24 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-16-2007, 11:48 AM
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'nuff said.....
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  #12  
Old 01-16-2007, 05:40 PM
Ed Fowler Ed Fowler is offline
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I want to know exactly what I am selling, the only way I can know for sure is to test a representative sample on a regular basis. I know of no other way to gain confidence in my blades.


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  #13  
Old 01-16-2007, 07:33 PM
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AndradeArtWorks AndradeArtWorks is offline
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Right on Ya'll! Your answers were all interesteing and give me more insight on how others proceed in testing steels. I plan to do more of it, and gain more confidence in doing so.

I realize that this is part of the craft and process of gaining valuable knowledge about what we are doing, and was curious what others did out there. This can always become a sort of debated topic in terms of what we induvidually would like to achieve in our practice of creating cutlery, and I thank you all for your input.

Don Carlos
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  #14  
Old 01-17-2007, 10:26 AM
Tai Google Tai Google is offline
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Here's a few questions to ponder.

If one has used the same methods and materials for a number of years or decades, and has tested numerous blades, at what point is absolute confidence gained? If absolute confidence is never gained this way and the testing must continue indefinitely reguardless of previous testing, what is the purpose of it?

Also, how are the test results interpreted beyond grain size, and the amount of force or stress required for destruction? Do the tests tell you how to achieve the desired results, what caused the failure or anomaly, what is acceptable and what isn?t,? or simply that the blade eventually failed?

I'm not saying don't do it... I'm just saying think about what you are doing first.


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  #15  
Old 01-17-2007, 10:55 AM
Ed Fowler Ed Fowler is offline
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Good thoughts Tai: One should never become over confident in anything. I once trusted a horse and my ability to manage him. I got carless, He put me in the hospital and I still know the event every morning.

The failure was mine, overconfidence in any persuit is devistating.

Everything will fail at some point, extending that point is the joy.


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