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  #1  
Old 07-25-2006, 03:19 PM
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RBSlaughter RBSlaughter is offline
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Ebay Fraudulant Listing

Hi Guys.. I don't use ebay much, but was wondering how to let them know about this one...

http://cgi.ebay.com/RON-LAKE-Custom-...QQcmdZViewItem

I love the part where he says he will only take a wire service payment.. I just hate to see someone get taken... Best, Rich
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  #2  
Old 07-25-2006, 04:47 PM
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Rich,

I'm not a collector but I don't see how you are so sure this is a fraud. It may be a fake but it appears the person selling it believes it is real. I base that on his significant amount of positive feedback, they guy does not appear to be a crook with a track record like that. Aside from that, anybody who decides to fork over $7000 for the knife better BE a collector and know what he's buying!

If you are sure the item is a fake, then you could email the seller (based on my belief that he doesn't know). If you are sure the whole deal is a fraud, there is a link at the bottom of the listing where you can report the listing to eBay ...


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  #3  
Old 07-25-2006, 06:47 PM
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People have faked my knives on Ebay. It does happen.
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Old 07-25-2006, 07:28 PM
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Not doubting that a bit, Tai. All I'm saying is if this IS a fake I don't think the seller knows it. And, I was hoping Rich might shed some light on why he feels it isn't kosher so I could learn a little sumthin' .

Also would add that the picture appears to be one that was taken by someone who actually had that knife in his posession, i.e., it's not a professional picture that the seller taken from some other source. It is seriously under lit and slightly out of focus. Of course, the knife itself could be fake but that sure looks like a darned good copy of a Lake folder. So I am hoping to find out why it might not be the genuine article because it would easily fool me ....


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 07-25-2006 at 07:32 PM.
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  #5  
Old 07-25-2006, 07:38 PM
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I'm almost certain this knife is made by CAS Iberia and is a clone. They are nice knives actually, I own one. The photos have been altered to remove the "Lake Design" logo to read "Lake".. All the red flags are there.. No Refunds,.. "I'm not an expert..." ..No-PayPal, only wired, (western union), funds.. Look at the finish on the close up of the stag insert.. Anyway, what I think this person is attemping to do is con someone, and then claim he didn't know it wasn't real.. When you elimate a pay service with dispute resolution, and state that the sale is final, he has legally absolved himself...

Also, he has changed the photo's from the first ones listed to better conceal that the knife is a clone,(my opinion..) .. He removed most of the close ups, blurred the rest ever so slightly, and removed the leather lanyard from all but one photo.. That lanyard was a dead give away..

Honestly, I don't really know what to do.. I buy on ebay once in awhile, but am not familar with how to caution somone.. Perhaps I should trust that anyone buying a Ron Lake knife is savvy enough not to buy a fake. I could be wrong about all of this, I just hate to see a fellow collector get conned..

Thanks for your reply Ray and Tai... Best, Rich

BTW Ray... Take a look at the sellers section on our forum and you will see that Don Guild, whom I have much admiration for as a collector and person, offers these clones as a thank you gift to people that buy high end knives from him.. They really are nice knives, very well made, but are copies... And if this is an Iberia, there is no way he could have bought this knife "years ago" as these knives are fairly new.. Maybe a couple of years at best.... Rich

Last edited by RBSlaughter; 07-25-2006 at 08:23 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07-25-2006, 07:43 PM
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AUBE AUBE is offline
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it isnt the case with this seller, but one thing to watch on ebay is the seller feedback. if you see a questionable deal click on his feedback and see the dates when the feedbacks were left. sometimes old ebay ids that arent being used anymore get cracked and are then used to scam people with....so they can have a 100% score but now you arent dealing with the people that built that score up..youre dealing with the crooks. if you notice the guy did a lot of business then all of the sudden no transactions for months/years and hes listing something questionable now... it raises red flags.

in-use ids get cracked too but since people still log in to them its quickly noticed and resolved.
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  #7  
Old 07-25-2006, 08:00 PM
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Here's a photo of my Lake/Design interframe...

Here's a few more things I have discovered since my original post.. All the photo's except one have been pulled and replaced since this listing began. This was done today about 1pm.. These shown now look much more like a legitimate Ron Lake interframe. I looked at this item around noon west coast time, and at that time, all of the photo's had the leather lanyard on it.. Also, and this is a biggie, the original photos's had the name "Lake" in black lettering, (no close ups..), and I detected at that time a blur where the word "design" is as you can see on mine..These new photos have the look of the Lake name being stamped, and not filled in.. I am certain of this because it was what made me suspicious in the first place. Also, the finish on the pictures orginaly shown was more satin than polished as it is now.. Look closely at the photo in the listing that remains from the original ones posted.. The one with the lanyard.. Does it look more satin or polished? To me it resembles mine, satin.. Honestly, I didn't notice at the time in the original photos if all the pins in the stag were stainless or two brass colored ones like mine has.. I have a funny feeling that if someones buys this they are going to get a copy. I might write to him and see if he would allow a transaction with an escrow company involved, and once the piece was proved to be original, let the funds go.. What do some of you think about that ?? Just curious...Best, Rich

Last edited by RBSlaughter; 07-26-2006 at 09:17 PM.
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  #8  
Old 07-25-2006, 09:33 PM
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Thumbs down I'm with Rich.

That knife is SO bogus. The seller has buffed it till the edges of the bevels and other parts are rounded. A TRUE Ron Lake piece is crisp to the nth degree. This looks like the well-made Ron Chen version that I own also. Ron Lake would never settle on that pin for the bale.

Buffed till the ink came out of the maker's mark. Too many excuses on this piece. Stay away like the plague.

Coop


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  #9  
Old 07-26-2006, 08:48 AM
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Well, there certainly seems to be a consensus that this knife isn't the real deal. Thanks for the follow up info Rich, I learned some useful things there. And, Coop drives the last nail in the coffin for me.

There is the link at the bottom of the listing where fraudulent listings can be reported. I think it's time to use that link. But, since this guy seems to have a good reputation and we can't prove that he is knowingly trying to deceive anyone, I think you should say only that you have good erason to believe the knife is not genuine and let eBay make the decision about the seller himself. If there have been other such situations involving this guy they'll pull the plug on him.

I think providing eBay with a link to this thread would be useful. Rich, since you found it I imagine you would like to do the honors. If you would rather not, then let me know and I'll do it ....


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  #10  
Old 07-26-2006, 08:50 AM
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I have also seen old knives of mine come up for sale that have been modified from the original, or re-touched by someone else. As long as people are honest about it, it's not so much a problem. However, when they try to pass it off as in original mint condition,... it tends to bother me. That happens quite a bit too. One never knows what will become of a knife after it leaves the shop.
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  #11  
Old 07-26-2006, 02:52 PM
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Thanks Coop for your input. Unlike myself, you have actually seen, and held, the real deal. Ray, I am just going to tell ebay that I'm not certain the knife is what the seller has listed it to be, and let it go at that.. I'm fairly certain the owner knows exactly what it is, and the whole thing stinks, but I don't want any bad karma coming my way because I can't be 100% certain.. Best, Rich
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  #12  
Old 07-26-2006, 07:15 PM
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Price was just reduced on Ebay to $4999.00 from $7000.00.. That move just about removes any doubt for me.. What a ass clown this guy is.....
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  #13  
Old 07-26-2006, 07:45 PM
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Thumbs down Let's look closely.... PROOF POSITIVE!

Scammer's image of his custom 'Lake' folder:



A REAL Lake folder. How ironic. Same style.....



A Paul Chen/Hanwei Forge replica... WITHOUT the buffing.



Look at the lettering font closely and the bale. BTW, the replica is a VERY well made piece in its own right. I won't slam this at all. Even Ron Lake has commented how on much time he spent working with them and how impressed he was with the end product. So much so that the scammers are coming out....

Bogus.

Coop


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  #14  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:08 PM
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I just stumbled on to this thread. It sure doesn't look right. I called Ron, he wasn't home, but I left a detailed message. He'll be able to eliminate any doubt. I'm sure he'll appreciate the fact it was spotted. I'll let you all know when I hear back from him.
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  #15  
Old 07-27-2006, 01:40 AM
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I am a Italian knifemaker, the vendor he says to have bought the knife, in Milan for my experience the knife probably was buy in Lorenzi.
If the knife is original it must to have the knifemaker certificate of origin, we can ask to see the certificate. However the Ron word takes away every doubt.

Regards
Riccardo

Last edited by mknife; 07-27-2006 at 07:24 AM.
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