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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 07-03-2010, 01:19 PM
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michael_schaap michael_schaap is offline
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Question 1080

Well while I'm waiting for the 1080 to come I've been researching some things.

When it comes time to harden and temper the blade.... I got a nice toaster oven at the thrift store for a ten. So that's covered. I have a torch that I used for the one brick forge but do not have the one brick forge now..... not even sure if it would be big enough at any rate. Would the steel get hot enough to harden if I got some regular fire bricks and stacked a rectangular 'box' while positioning the torch flame within?

Michael


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What.... just take some metal, grind away anything that does not look like a knife and there you are. Whats the problem now?
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  #2  
Old 07-03-2010, 01:35 PM
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michael_schaap michael_schaap is offline
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Last time I looked at this type of thing it looked much more complicated.... bout 12ish years ago. Now this looks pretty easy.

http://www.zoellerforge.com/simplegasforge.html

Michael


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What.... just take some metal, grind away anything that does not look like a knife and there you are. Whats the problem now?
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2010, 04:10 PM
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That is a simple forge. The only differance I would make is to coat the insde of the forge with satinite refractory cement It will work well for forgeing and simple heat-treating.


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  #4  
Old 07-03-2010, 04:24 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Michael,

The square brick forge might work, might not but square forges are problematic. The Zoeller forge will do a nice job but is more complicated than it has to be for your first forge building effort. There are several small forge designs and a much simpler burner design on my site if you look around a bit. Start at http://www.rayrogers.com/forge2.htm and see what you can learn. What you want will be the links at the bottom of that page. In a nutshell, all you really need is a section of stove pipe (much smaller than a 5 gallon bucket), some Inswool (from Darren Ellis or any knife supply house for $15), a couple of fire bricks, and a few items from the hardware store to build a burner and control the gas flow. Honest, and I kid you not, if you can't build one of these things in one day and for under $100 you simply must be doing things the hard way ......


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 07-03-2010 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:15 PM
Ed Tipton Ed Tipton is offline
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Michael...I'm not sure about whether or not your forge would get the steel hot enough to harden or not, but you can tell this yourself. All that is needed is a magnet. Once a steel has been heated to the point where it is no longer magnetic, then it is hot enough to harden. Ideally, it should be heated just slightly beyond the non-magnetic point and then quenched as quickly as possible (in water if you're doing 1080 steel). If you are unable to heat the steel to the point where it is non-magnetic, then you will not be able to harden it. You won't hurt the steel...it just won't harden.
Even if you know your forge will achieve this temperature, it is a good idea to keep the magnet nearby since this is the most reliable way of telling you when you have reached the critical temperature. If the critical temp is exceeded by too great a margin, then the grain growth of the steel could be too large resulting in a weak blade. Also, care should be taken to elevate the entire blade to this temp as closely as possible to avoid inconsistancies in the quality of the blade. Always try to catch the critical temp on the upswing rather than going past the temp and then catching it on the decline.
To check for harndess, the steel should appear "clean", and when tested against a file, the file should just "skate" and not cut.

Last edited by Ed Tipton; 07-03-2010 at 08:18 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07-03-2010, 09:38 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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I built a square forge out of hard fire brick and it didn't work all that well. It was powered by a propane torch. You could get a large coffee can and line it with Inswool and cover that with some sort of coating. Put you hole for the torch tip in the middle of the can, or slightly back, and above the midline of the can. You might want to put a hole in the bottom of the can and through the insulation for a pass-through. That will allow you to heat a blade that is a little longer than the forge. Just keep the blade moving around a bit to keep from forming hot spots. This will allow you to heat treat smaller blades until you can build a larger forge for heat treating. When you get the principles of a gas forge down I think that you will see that it's not all that hard. If you can get yourself a blower, a blown burner can be built out of parts found at a lot of your hardware store.

Doug Lester


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Old 07-03-2010, 10:10 PM
huntforlife huntforlife is offline
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My forge consists of an old piece of stove pipe lined with inswool and coated in satinite. i have a fire brick from an old wood stove in the bottom. I use 2 other fire bricks to seal off the back, and two to seal off the front. Mine is blown, but I treated a blade this weekend in 1095 without the blower and just the torch. It worked just ast well.

Dont go overboard. Work with what works and keep it simple.


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  #8  
Old 07-05-2010, 08:21 AM
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I built my first forge using inspiration from Ray's small forge. It's really simple, and if I can do it, anyone can. Here's a few pages showing how I went about it:
http://www.loneadmin.com/forge_build/Welcome.html


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  #9  
Old 07-05-2010, 10:01 AM
gh1 gh1 is offline
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pipecrafter that is a super slide show.I like that forge idea better then the one brick.
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  #10  
Old 07-05-2010, 12:33 PM
huntforlife huntforlife is offline
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Great slideshow pipecrafter. Im going to redo mine this week as I have way to much volume. Takes entirely to long to get to temp.


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  #11  
Old 07-05-2010, 05:50 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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That really is a nice tutorial you have there, Pipecrafter. Since I came up with that little forge design a few years back I have received emails from quite a few guys who have built them and they all seem happy with how easy they are to build and how well they work. It's basically just coffee can forge but a little larger and with a nicer build and a better burner. Beats a one-brick hands down ......


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Old 07-05-2010, 06:26 PM
dennie dennie is offline
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Very nice forge and tutorial, and good results. End caps for stove pipe are available if one wants to avoid cutting and folding all of the tabs.
Dennie
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  #13  
Old 07-05-2010, 10:18 PM
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michael_schaap michael_schaap is offline
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Thanks a million. This looks too easy to not try it. Thanks again for the presentation.

Michael

P.S.
-----
Is there a mod in the house to put a link to that where people can find it?


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Michael

What.... just take some metal, grind away anything that does not look like a knife and there you are. Whats the problem now?
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  #14  
Old 07-05-2010, 10:25 PM
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Just to make sure I got this right.... 1080 is quenced using water NOT OIL, right? There was a reply up there that said water so I wanted to make sure this is correct.

Michael


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What.... just take some metal, grind away anything that does not look like a knife and there you are. Whats the problem now?
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  #15  
Old 07-06-2010, 02:40 AM
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AUBE AUBE is offline
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You can use either water or oil. Water will be more stressful for it so there is more chance of cracking. I use plain veggie oil and it works fine, gets nice and hard, forms hamons with clay, etc.
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