MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > The Outpost

The Outpost This forum is dedicated to all who share a love for, and a desire to make good knives, and have fun doing it. We represent a diverse group of smiths and knifemakers who bring numerous methods to their craft.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-15-2001, 07:19 AM
MaxTheKnife
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
New Tribal tool from my school trip


It's called a filing station. You clamp your blade into the milled out slot on the clamping jig. I got three big Nicholson double cut files with it. Coarse, medium and fine. I did some playing around with it and finally decided that you have to use the draw filing technique where you try to keep the file at a 90 degree angle from the blade and move it from side to side instead of along the axis of the file. Otherwise, you get bit grooves pushed into the blade from the file loading up after each stroke.



It was a little spendy, but will outlast me and many, many sets of files. I just used it about an hour and busted the guide pins on the clamping jig. I found a better way anyhow. If any of you boys have any experience with one of these outfits I would appreciate any helpful hints to decrease my learning curve and get on the road to production. Lord knows I'm way behind on orders. The blade chucked up in the jig in the pic is one I forged at school from 1084. I let my imagination run wild and came up with some serious recurves. I took alot of ribbing over it too. One of my instructors comments was "what the hell is that?" when he looked at the recurve blade I had prepared for the handles and guards class. He dubbed it the 'Banana Republic Knife' and it stuck. Heck, it would make a good banana harvesting knife. I'll try to get a pic of it posted soon.

He (Mike Williams, Master Bladesmith) taught me how to handle a knife with the split slab, babbot technique for a hidden tang knife. Very cool and easy too. The one tool you have to have is a shoulder filing jig for filing your ricasso shoulders. It's imperative to get a totally flat, flush fit to your guard. Also, you completely inset the tang at the ricasso shoulders for a seamless fit. No solder was used in class. We used JB quick weld to set the guard. Amazing stuff. That banana knife represents one of the finest fit and finishes I've acheived so far. We used a regular homemade woodworking chisel to mmortise out the tang slot in the slabs. More later.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-15-2001, 07:41 AM
Sweany
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Too good, I like it!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-15-2001, 10:30 AM
primos
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Max,
This is just too cool. While my methods are not Neo-Tribal -- electricity, air conditioning, etc. -- I do tend to do a lot of hand work. I hate using a grinder, even though I have what in 1995 was about $1200 worth of Burr King and attachments. I often just use the grinder to "knock the bark off", then use draw filing, or a Sen (ala Don Fogg).

But this gadget of yours knocks my socks off. I'd love to know more about it, or the new, better idea you've come up with. I sure appreciate you sharing this with us.

Here's a pic of a filing fixture like Max is talking about. It helps you get good flats on the back of the ricasso. If you're worried about mechanical stresses at the ricasso/tang juncture, you can use a chainsaw file to make a radius in that area. I always draw the tang and ricasso way back after heat treating, and have never had a problem.



Like Max, I too learned the JB Weld and mortised tang construction tricks at the ABS school several years ago. If anyone in the Neo-Tribal community is interested, I did a tutorial on solderless guards, using JB Weld to seal the joint. Here's a link...

Solderless Guards

Once again, I really like the filing station Max -- "You da man!". Please tell us more.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-15-2001, 12:28 PM
MaxTheKnife
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Hey, thanks for chiming in Terry! I enjoyed meeting you at the hammer-in and wish I'd spent more time chatting with you.

The filing station is great for consistent flat grinds on annealed blades. The only problem I've found so far is when your blade is longer than the jig plate or table. The end of the blade tends to bend downward and throw off your angle of attack with the file. I guess using a long piece of flat bar stock as a backing would take care of the problem, but so far I've just been holding upward tension on the bottom side of the point with my left hand and filing with my right. It works ok, but isn't very accurate.

As to the draw filing, I just learned how to do it in the handles and guards class. Mike Williams uses that technique all the time for most all of his blades. Even the fancy Japanese blades he forges. The file doesn't get loaded up because instead of skimming the top of the steel when using the file in a front to back motion, you're actually shaving the top off like using a thousand sins all at the same time. You wind up with a bunch of steel wool looking slivers that don't load up in the teeth of the file. It's realy cool and works great.

Also, when using the filing station, I haven't figured out how to get the nice, smooth, curved grind line or plunge line like with a rounded over platen on a belt grinder. I guess it'll take practice is all. I wind up filing the plunge line in by moving the file front to back and cleaning up the teeth after every pass to keep from scobbing up the bevel. Then, I draw file right up to the shoulder to clean it up and even it out. No more 2" hickies from belt grinders for me! The only thing I'll need a belt grinder for now is for profiling. I like it!!!

Thanks for posting the pic of the shouldering jig Terry. I almost bought one from Uncle Al, but $95.00 was just a little rich for my blood. I have a homemade one from a friend in the Intro class. He gave it to me because he did buy one of Uncle Al's. I just have to heat treat it is all. He didn't know how so it was all scobbed up from filing. Well, back to the grindstone!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-15-2001, 01:00 PM
Kevin Isler
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Cool Tools!


I like that filing jig Max. Doesn't look like it would be too hard to rig up a homemade version. Looks like a big Lansky sharpener. I read Terry's tutorial on soulderless guards yesterday, some cool ideas in there. I've been using a homemade ricasso jig like that for years, works great.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-15-2001, 01:44 PM
foxcreek
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
radius or not?


I have concluded that the radius at the junction of the tang and ricasso area is necessary for withstanding the stresses of hardening, but may be squared up safely afterwards. Especially with a closely fitted guard and maybe a ferrule too. On small knives very often there is just no room for a radius at his juncture, especially if the edge goes all the way to the guard. I aways make darn sure the tang and tang/ricasso juncture is drawn soft so I dont have too much trouble squaring this up after hardening and tempering. .
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-15-2001, 02:14 PM
MaxTheKnife
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: radius or not?


I agree with you Richard. A perfectly square 90 degree angle on the tang/ricasso area is a perfect for stress risers and an invitation to cracking and even complete breaking off during heat treating. The way I did it at school was to leave plenty of meat at the guard/ricasso shoulder area and after heat treating and drawing I stuck the tip of the blade into a small block of wood and suspended it in a 3" pvc pipe with a cap on one end full of water. Adjust the water level so it's right at the edge/ricasso/choil junction and draw the tang and ricasso down to a dark purple and let it air cool. Then, grind your shoulders square and no more problem.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-15-2001, 03:00 PM
primos
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: radius or not?


Yep, the knife in the picture above was heat treated, and the tang and ricasso drawn back, before the back guard stop shoulders were filed in. I believe that's alluded to in the tutorial.

I have however, successfully pulled it off by doing it prior to heat treat with just a slight radius, even on air hardening steels like D2, and 440C.

Oops! Can I even mention those steels in here? : No, I don't forge air hardening steels.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-15-2001, 07:00 PM
Dana Acker
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: radius or not?


Terry, you're allowed to mention anything you want on this forum--feel the freedom, Bro., We're glad to have you drop by. For the record, I know some guys who forged air hardening steels--said it moved real hard even at bright orange heats and can crack if forged into the duller reds. They said the nice thing was when it came time to quench, they just took it out of the fire at critical, waved it in the air and said loudly, "HARDEN!" And it did. More power to 'em. Too much work and worry for my blood though.

Hey Max, it's really good to have you back. I want to see the Banana Republic blade when finished. I work in the real Banana Republic (Honduras) from time to time, and I've seen a lot of banana cutters--none as neat as yours looks.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-15-2001, 08:51 PM
ron claiborne
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
newtribal tool from my school trip


sound like a new max in the shop
glade to see that you taught them boys some thing
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-16-2001, 06:23 AM
MaxTheKnife
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: newtribal tool from my school trip


It went both ways Ron. Mostly, I learned how much I really didn't know about the forging and forge welding processes. I've had trouble welding in the past because I just don't get my fire hot enough. You should see Bill Moran run a coal forge fire! Man, what an inferno!!! I've also been guilty of piling green coal on top of my fire during forging. Bill says that degrades the steel with impurities, as he believes that a properly managed fire and proper forging temps maintain the carbon level in your steel as you forge. He firmly believes that there is a definite benefit to packing the edge of your blade at a dull red all the way down to black heat. I tend to agree with him. After all, he's been forging blades for over 50 years. When experience talks, I listen.

I definately learned the benefits of flat grinding all the way down to clean, flat steel on my blades. Not only can you get a superior heat treat as a result, but also a better looking, more balanced blade in the end. No heat risers means less chances of cracking and warping when using good heat treat techniques.

The filing station is just another phase in my evolution into a budding bladesmith. It's alot of hard work, but well worth it in the end. Much safer than any grinder on the market and absolutely precise once you set your angle up. You sure can find a slight curve in your blade in a hurry! It may look straight until you clamp it up in the jig and then you can see the warp a mile away!

Yeah, I learned alot. It'll take me a while to put it all to good use, but it'll be there when I need it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-25-2001, 02:58 AM
AlaskaKlooch
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

hey Max... I tried that JB Weld and nearly got stoned in the streets.. folks said save it for the gas tank on my chain saw! great looking stuff there..look for e-mail soon..I've been busy setting up a honest to real life forge up here!...Charlie
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-25-2001, 03:03 AM
AlaskaKlooch
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

how'd that "elite member" moniker get on my handle? I just got here today!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-25-2001, 06:33 AM
MaxTheKnife
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Hey Chief, good to see you here on the forum. JB quick weld stoned you in the streets, huh? Well, I've only used it once and that was in class. I did buy some the other day, so I guess I'll use it on my next hidden tang project.

I think that Dana, the moderator, has the 'CKD Elite Member' thing set up for all the folks who register. Does make you feel kind of special don't it?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-25-2001, 12:03 PM
AlaskaKlooch
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Max, I'm going to to get some fiberglass resin from an aircraft supply and try that..just like glass bedding a rifle I think..JB Weld worked good and that knife I did it on is just fine...Charlie
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
blade, fixed blade, forge, forging, knife, knives


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

(View-All Members who have read this thread : 11
Boyd A H, coastie117, Cowtown, hadley perdue, jon creason, Mike_H, muleteam, Octoris, RandyScott, salerno, Voltaire
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:46 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved