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Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

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  #1  
Old 02-06-2014, 06:30 PM
schwatk schwatk is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alpine, CA.
Posts: 9
First Try at San Mai

Hello All,

I?m new to bladesmithing. I?ve successfully done a little forge welding of 1084 and 15N20.
I would like to try doing a San Mai or Laminate of wrought iron with a core of 1084. If successful I?d like to make a skinner about 7 to 8 inches long and 3/16 thick. The question I have is what thicknesses should my wrought iron and 1084 be, before welding? Do I make the billet thicker and then forge it to a thickness of 3/16? Also should I heat treat the blade like it?s just a 1084 blade?

As always Thank You for any and all help and recommendations.

Joe
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2014, 10:38 PM
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GHEzell GHEzell is offline
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I generally start with each of the three pieces being the same thickness. For me, in forge-welding the steel it will loose 1/3 to 1/2 of its thickness from hammering and welding it together... for this project I'd start with a billet about 3/8" thick, your results may vary... Heat-treat the blade exactly like you would the core steel by itself, but give it a few extra normalizing cycles to bring the grain down to size (it will grow quite a bit from the welding).

The wrought iron will move under the hammer much easier than the 1084, I suggest forging the profile to shape but 1/8" oversize, and then grinding the edges down to your profile, otherwise the WI can completely encase the edge steel. To keep the core centered work the billet equally from both sides. One trick I use is to forge the profile over-sized, grind the profile down to shape, grind in a 45 degree edge bevel, then forge in the edge bevel the rest of the way. This will assure that you have hardenable steel on the edge.


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  #3  
Old 02-07-2014, 08:19 AM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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If you want to be successful, I'd suggest avoiding the wrought iron. As with doing any forge welding, you can cause yourself lots of heartache by using materials that are too dissimilar. I'd go with the 15N20 and 1084 for starters, and after some success with that, try to wrought iron if you want. There's a huge list of issues when it comes to mixing two materials with such different expansion and contraction characteristics.


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Old 02-08-2014, 10:12 AM
Jeremy Jeremy is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Idaho
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You've gotten some very good advice already. I've got hopes to someday do the same thing you're wanting to. As Ed says, the two materials are very different and can cause some problems. Depending on how long you're at welding heat, you can get too much carbon migration from the core to the carbon deficient WI. That can leave you with not enough on your cutting edge if not forged with care.

I read a thread a while back where a guy got through the heat treatment of the blade and ended up with a long crack. Best he could figure was because of the significant differences in expansion/contraction rates of the two different metals, it literally started tearing itself apart.

All that being said, it can most certainly be done and it looks really cool (in my opinion). You may already be aware of it, but I believe there's a tutorial on blade forum with a San Mai blade made with WI. Whenever you decide to give it a try, post pics-I'd love to see what you come up with.

Jeremy
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1084, art, bevel, billet, blade, forge, forged, forging, grind in, grinding, heat, heat treat, iron, knife, make, materials, post, profile, project, skinner, steel, thickness, welding


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