How would you "hook up" this press frame?

[J. Keeton]

I was talking to my father about building a press and he said he had an old frame he build for a press many years ago. HE said he used to use a 30ton jack to operate it.

The question is what stuff whould you buy to make this into a functional hydraulic press for a knifemaker, and where would you get it? Does anyone know where any cheap parts can be bought (Money is not something I have a lot of ). Any suggestions are encouraged.

The frame is 6ft tall x 40in wide. The verticals are 4in channel iron and the horizontals are 6in channel iron. The pins are 3/4in steel pins.

Here are some pictures:









How many tons do you think It could take.


Thanks,

[Ed Caffrey]

The local scrap yard is like a Blacksmtih's Walmart! Most of the time you can find all sorts of useful stuff there.....and paying scrap prices sure beats new!

OK, to be totally honest, I would NOT make a hydraulic press out of that frame without beefing is up A LOT. Get rid of the pins/bolts, and gusset EVERYTHING a heavily as you can, and then WELD (and I mean WELD) everything together. If you've not worked with a forging press, it's impossilbe to explain the amount and types of forces you're gona be dealing with. The main "I" beam on my press (using a 6" cylinder) is 12" X 6" with 1/2" web and 5/8" flanges. Before I installed 3/8" thick gusset plates on both sides, and another 1/2" thick plate on the front flange of the "I" beam, it would flex when I applied all the force I could while still keeping the hydraulic pressure below 2000psi!

A press is a very dangerous piece of equipment if you don't fully understand it, and I don't think there is such a thing as an "overbuilt" forging press. One of the things that scares me the most is when I go into a shop and see someone working on a forging press that they built with a 3" or 4" hydraulic cylinder that is putting out 25+ tons of force. In order to get that amount of force, they have to be pushing over 3000psi in the hydraulic lines! Most all commercially available lines are only rated at 3000psi! If a leak ever developed at those pressures, it would cut you in half like a light saber on Star Wars.

My take on building a press....
*Build the heaviest, best reenforced frame you can.
*Don't use anything less than a 6" hydraualic cylinder (this allows you to keep the pressure down to safe levels)
*Nothing less than 1 1/4" bolts or pins (for up to 35 tons) and then only where necessary.
*Don't try to build a press that exceeds 35-40 tons of force. This is all you'll ever need for forging anything you can lift. In fact in my experience anythig more than 40 tons is counter productive.
*Be aware of the various forces involved...there are lateral forces to contend with in a press as well as vertical forces.
*Always respect it! The moment you don't it's going to get you.

[J. Keeton]

Thanks for the info. Should I reduce the width of the fram, and make it less than 40in? And when you mean beefing it up you mean atatching aditional pieces of channel iron to it, just instaling some more supports, or just reinforcing everything with welds. I don't really understand where to beef it up.

Thanks for your help,

[Ed Caffrey]

If that press frame was one made for a hand operated press (the kind that uses a bottle jack) I would say that it needs to be much heavier steel throughout. When I say "beef it up" I mean that it needs to be HEAVY DUTY. If you were to mount even a 4" cylinder on that frame, I suspect the force would just fold that frame up.

Narrowing the frame would help stiffen it, but it would just make a louder "Bang" when it gives out. As I mentioned in the other post, it's impossilbe to relay the types of forces, and just how much force your going to be dealing with in a press.

Here's a photo of my press, and I find myself wishing that I had built it with heavier/thicker steel than what I did....


I'm not telling you NOT to use that frame, but want to make sure that you understand that is has to be super heavy duty to withstand being used as a forging press. If you've never seen a large piece of steel break from stress, your lucky, and I hope you never do. When a large piece of steel stresses to the point of breaking, it goes off like a shotgun, and sometimes small chunks of it become missles......not any fun to be around......just keep yourself safe!

[Raymond Richard]

Listen to Ed! Learn how to make knives with what you have and in time you can aquire the other toys you need. Enjoy being 16 cause it won't last for long.

[J. Keeton]

Originally Posted by Raymond Richard

Listen to Ed! Learn how to make knives with what you have and in time you can aquire the other toys you need. Enjoy being 16 cause it won't last for long.

Don't worry I am interested in all the safty concerns with makeing a press. Thats why I ask so many questions.

__________________________________________________ _____________________


Do you think I should beef up the frame I have, or try to find a large track piece like you have to build my first press? I have been advised to not go over 20 - 24 tons with this H-frame press (that is after I beef it up). Does that sound about right. A lot of people use a 4.5 x 8in cylinder. To compensate for the higher pressures do they make lines that can handle more than 3000psi, or is going with a 6+ the absolute best way to go.

Do you think that IG's Forge part list whould be a good list for this press?

Indian George's parts list:
"Parts Listing
Supplier Part# Discription Comments
Northern 1053-c161 Barnes 2 Stage Pump -11gpm
2010-c161 Prince Standard 4-way Control Valve
4051-c161 7 Gallons Hyraulic Oil Tank Must Clean The Inside Well
4022-c161 Return Line Filter
4010-c161 Suction Strianer This Goes Into The Tank
Fittings And Hoses You Will Need 3 Hi- Pressure Hoses And Low Pressure Hose For The Return.
53606-c161 Glycerin Filled Gauge 0-3000psi
Surplus Center 10-1485 Electric Motor I Use A 3 Hp At 3250 Rpms
09 4954 Hydraulic Cylinder I Use A 4 1/2" Bore X 8" Stroke With The Pump And Motor Should Be Generate 20 to 24 Tons
If I would build another one I would go with a bigger bore cylinder. Mini 5" and a H frame."

What whould your full part list be? If you were building a new press?

Thanks a lot,

[B.Finnigan]

If you want a press to do damascus it really is not needed unless you are going to make alot of them or lage blades. I just finished hammering out a 9 layer billet with a 3 lbs. hammer, folded it and drew it out to 1 1/8 x 6 1/2 inches long. I sacrificed just under an inch for a tang base so I would still have a 5 1/2 blade. After I cut a "V" into the tang base I cut a matching but reverse "V" in a piece of 1095 and welded it onto the tang base. A little angle grinding and then belt grinding and you can't tell that it was ever two pieces.

I would love to have a press and power hammer but they are just not in the budget right now and no where in the near future. However I am not going to let that stop me from learning how to pattern weld and turn out a few blades. Since you are 16 vs. 40 ish you don't have alot of "_____itises" in your shoulders, elbows and wrist so you could hammer a billet out in one session and not be out of commision the next day (or week ).

But then again I am a sucker for a good "from the ground up" project and if you really want to build a press you will fiqure how to do it. We all want you to be safe and at least make it to graduation with most of your body parts still functioning. If you wern't building a press then you would probably be out riding MX bikes or quad runners which are just as risky and have been known to cause body parts to stop working.

[J. Keeton]

Originally Posted by B.Finnigan

If you want a press to do damascus it really is not needed unless you are going to make alot of them or lage blades. I just finished hammering out a 9 layer billet with a 3 lbs. hammer, folded it and drew it out to 1 1/8 x 6 1/2 inches long. I sacrificed just under an inch for a tang base so I would still have a 5 1/2 blade. After I cut a "V" into the tang base I cut a matching but reverse "V" in a piece of 1095 and welded it onto the tang base. A little angle grinding and then belt grinding and you can't tell that it was ever two pieces.

I would love to have a press and power hammer but they are just not in the budget right now and no where in the near future. However I am not going to let that stop me from learning how to pattern weld and turn out a few blades. Since you are 16 vs. 40 ish you don't have alot of "_____itises" in your shoulders, elbows and wrist so you could hammer a billet out in one session and not be out of commision the next day (or week ).

But then again I am a sucker for a good "from the ground up" project and if you really want to build a press you will fiqure how to do it. We all want you to be safe and at least make it to graduation with most of your body parts still functioning. If you wern't building a press then you would probably be out riding MX bikes or quad runners which are just as risky and have been known to cause body parts to stop working.

The building of this press is going to be a long term thing. I am just gathering information for when I accumulate some capital. I am sure I will make many billets with just a hammer. And don't worry I want to keep all of my body parts also.

[Mike Sader]

Jimmy, I have a press like the one in your pic,I used it to press bearings onto a third member on my sons p/u rearend I rebuilt. The thing flexed terribly and I wasn't even using much pressure. I would suggest like Ed and others say, and I am going to do myself that we build the fram out of heavy I-Beam, I am working for a drilling co. building drilling rigs and have seen a lot of good size ( I think) pieces of beam that i can salvage, where are you in La.? The oilfield is booming now and there are a lot of yards building rigs you might look into them also. Good Luck, and be safe, Mike Sader

[J. Keeton]

Originally Posted by Mike Sader

Jimmy, I have a press like the one in your pic,I used it to press bearings onto a third member on my sons p/u rearend I rebuilt. The thing flexed terribly and I wasn't even using much pressure. I would suggest like Ed and others say, and I am going to do myself that we build the fram out of heavy I-Beam, I am working for a drilling co. building drilling rigs and have seen a lot of good size ( I think) pieces of beam that i can salvage, where are you in La.? The oilfield is booming now and there are a lot of yards building rigs you might look into them also. Good Luck, and be safe, Mike Sader

Ya I have given up on this frame. I have been looking for some good large I - Beam. I was thinking of going to the scrap yard soon. I may be able to just look around, there are a lot of downed buildings and stuff close to this area.

BTW : I am in Metairie / Jefferson Parish

[fitzo]

Mike Sader, how the heck are ya? It's been awhile!

[Mike Sader]

:tea: Hey Fitzo,don,t wanna steal Jimmys thread but doin good,looked for ya on paltalk a couple of weeks ago. Hope to be gettin back in here a little more often, workin in Andrews area (home) again.Anyway,good to hear from you again and Jimmy, hope ya find some I-beam that will work,if you were closer I could get ya some but there's about 1200 mi. between us and shipping would kill any benefits I'm afraid. Good Luck, Mike

[fitzo]

Glad yer doing well, Mike! I go into Paltalk a couple nights a week, depends on whether the Bulls are on TV.

Jimmy, with all the cleanup and reconstruction, there should be a lot of steel being scrapped out. My (scrap) H-beam and a 2x3' baseplate of 1/2" plate was obtained for $75 along with a big piece of 1" used for all the gusseting.