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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 11-29-2012, 08:34 PM
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Helljumper09 Helljumper09 is offline
 
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What type of steel to start with?

Ok guys, being as I am just staring off in knife making, I have a question. My first blade is a kit blade from knife kits and really got me excited to delve deeper onto knife making. I recently took a trip to a new steel store in town and just from looking around a few minutes, I seen that they carried some 6061, D2 I think it was and some O1 tool steel. Out of these three, which would be the "easiest" to work with if I wanted to do a knife from scratch? I'm sure they have more variety but from the short time I was there, that's what I noticed. Also how much does heat treat cost and what's the best place to send it? All help is greatly appreciated and welcome cuz I love this new found hobby and want to really learn more about it.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:16 PM
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Hi Helljumper,
D2 and 01 are both good knifemaking steels. I'm still relatively new and haven't worked with either yet but believe that 01 (annealed) is easy to work with in terms of stock-removal from everything I've read.
I've been using Texas Knifemakers for HT service. They do great work and are inexpensive.
Go to this link and scroll down to "Services" for pricing and Heat Treat Order Form: http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/index.php


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Old 11-29-2012, 09:19 PM
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From what I can gather 1084 is a good starter choice.


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Old 11-29-2012, 10:51 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is online now
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I would be leaning towards the 6061 if you want to build a gas forge to heat treat with. With the 0 as the second digit I would expect it to be rather low in the chromium and vanadium, that's indicated by the 6, and the 61 at the end would mean that it's hypoeutectic or unsaturated with carbon in the austinized state. I would expect it to be deep hardening from the chromium and vanadium and the vanadium and hypoeutectic carbon level will make the steel less prone to grain growth in a gas forge. The vanadium will also contribute some to wear resistance even though there's not much carbon to contribute to carbide formation.

D2 is an air quenching steel that any professional heat treater will know how to handle but it is wear down belts fast, especailly after heat treating due to the carbides of vanadium and molybdenum.

O1 can be heat treated in a gas forge but really needs more control to get the best out of the steel. Like a regulated kiln or a molten salt pot.

It's easier to find a heat treater that will treat air quenching steel than one that will do oil quenching steel. Many, if not most, heat treaters will only treat air quenching steel.

Doug


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Old 11-30-2012, 05:37 AM
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Het Doug, thanks for the good info. There might have been different kinds of steel there but I didn't stick around very long so I don't know. No matter what I end up buying, I will be sending it off to Texas knife makers to do my heat treating. I won't be doing it on my own. I'm just wondering after heat treat, which of the three will be easiest to work with as far as putting on the final edge and any clean up after HT. Also how far would I have to sand before HT. Would it get easier to clean up after HT if I go even finer than say 400?
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:53 AM
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I just went through my first heat treating experience. I sent them to Texas Knife. They charge about $5 a knife, but remember you have to pay shipping both ways, so for my four it ended up being about $12 a blade. I think it really depends on how much metal you leave to be removed after heat treat. There probably isn't any need to go to 400 or finer if you have to remove a lot of metal afterwards for obvious reasons. Mine were A2 steel, and I took the edge really thin on one of them before I sent it just to test the results. It was about .02 at the very edge and there was no warping or other problems. I'm not sure, but I think there might be less of those issues with air hardening steel. These guys on here are great. If they have names like Doug or Ray or Bubba, then they usually know their crap. Generally you should ignore those with names like MegaZombieChop108 and cbsmith111.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:22 PM
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I think a mistake has been made concerning 6061......the only 6061 I know of is aluminum, not steel at all. Of course, it is very possible there is something in steel with which I am not familiar but if your 6061 is some kind of steel it would surprise me.

As for D2, I wouldn't wish that on anyone and especially not on a new knife maker. Follow the advice you've been given and look for some 1084 (or 1080 or 1075) if you plan to do your own heat treating. If you are willing to send your blade out then look for some 440C stainless and send it to Texas Knifemakers. Never send a blade to a general purpose heat treater (industrial heat treater). You want someone who specializes in blades and knows why blades are different than extrusion dies or whatever else the general industry guys heat treat ...


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Old 11-30-2012, 04:08 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is online now
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I'm glad Ray spotted it. I wasn't thinking that 6061 might not even be steel. Of the two two steels that Helljumper listed the O1 is an oil quenching steel that is best treated in a regulated heat source due to a more complex alloy. And the D2 is an air quenching steel that can be difficult to grind, especially after hardening and tempering due to the high levels of carbides. For various reasons, neither is recommended for a beginner.

Helljumper, I would go with Ray's advice, if I were you and order some 440C. Even if that means having to order it online. It's cheap, as far as stainless steels go, it will make a good blade, and any commercial heat treater will know how to deal with it. When you learn more about steels and what goes on in heat treating you can decide if and how you want to expand your selection of blade steels and production methods, but for now, use what you can afford to screw up.

Doug


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Old 11-30-2012, 06:26 PM
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They may very well had say 1080 or the other typical knife steels but I wasn't there very long so I didn't check all of the racks. I am 99% sure that some of the steel was 6061, I'm going back next week to do some double checking and see what else they have. I'm sure they can get stainless or 1080 but it won't be for a while. I will be using Texas knifemakes as my heat treater. I don't have the means or the knowledge to do it my self. Any other tips would be most helpful.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:01 AM
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OK guys, you WERE right when saying 6061 is aluminum. Maybe I read their rack wrong but it doesn't matter. I've got three project knives going at the same time right now. One being my first blade, which is a kit, the second is a rehandle project and the third is a stainless blade that is off of one of those giant folders. I don't know the makeup of the steel all I know is that it says stainless on the blade. I've cut and groun the tail end of the giant blade into a handle shape and am in the process of refining the shape and reshaping the spine of the blade a bit. with all of the cutting and grinding, i always make sure to have a bucket of water handy to cool the blade when it gets too hot to hang on to.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lester View Post
I would be leaning towards the 6061 if you want to build a gas forge to heat treat with. With the 0 as the second digit I would expect it to be rather low in the chromium and vanadium, that's indicated by the 6, and the 61 at the end would mean that it's hypoeutectic or unsaturated with carbon in the austinized state. I would expect it to be deep hardening from the chromium and vanadium and the vanadium and hypoeutectic carbon level will make the steel less prone to grain growth in a gas forge. The vanadium will also contribute some to wear resistance even though there's not much carbon to contribute to carbide formation.
Btw if you were wondering where Doug got that info from when it ended up not being steel, its the AISI/SAE designation system used on steels. The numbering system gives you a glimpse of what the steel composition is, and how it should behave. Everything he said would have been true if it was a steel, and not aluminum. For example if someone says "6150 steel" you can have an idea of how it behaves even if you hadn't heard of it before. In this case it ended up being aluminum, not steel.

http://www.jjjtrain.com/vms/eng_meta...l_stds_03.html


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Old 12-05-2012, 05:32 AM
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Thanks for the valuable info man. I love it when people link forbid kind of thing. It gives me something to link back to if and when I ever get into forging and different things. All the info I can get the better. Have a nice day all.
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