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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #16  
Old 10-08-2013, 05:09 AM
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Well Ray, that's kind of what I was studying on. Got to looking at parts prices and work in fabrication, then remembered replacing a WHTR in my brother's camper good while back (almost kept it, but didn't know why at the time). Just kind of made sense - already tapped, wired, and ready to go. Stable base and insulated, just cut the top out and make a lid. Been watching and looking one will show up for free eventually.
Right now I use one of those pressurized soft drink containers. Holds 3 1/2 gallons, stainless steel, cam sealed lid with handles. Spill proof and portable for demos. Had thought about converting it similar to yours, but hate to mess with a good travel tank.

Stuart - 2 gallon crockpot......that's a bigun! Might want to leave your thermometer in during the whole cycle event of the quenching process. Check in several places and I think you will find it enlightening.

Mike, study Ray's set up a little better. Heating element is at the base and temp gage midway, by the time the oil starts to reach 120 at the gage he can simply unplug/turn-off and let the thermal transfer welling up through the oil hold the heat. Not that fast a transference. Not seeing a problem there. Much more accurate than a hot piece of steel or a cooker t-stat.


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  #17  
Old 10-08-2013, 07:37 AM
Pairomedicsfish Pairomedicsfish is offline
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I have been using ATF in an ammo box. I heat up a RR spike and warm my oil with that. The lid closes easily in case of a flare up and it locks down snugly. It holds a gallon of oil and I am getting my blades pretty darn hard.
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  #18  
Old 10-08-2013, 10:16 AM
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I use a stainless 14'' pot with a single plug in store bought hotplate..........have the heat set dial down to an art now as to when I need to turn it on and how long it takes to get to quenching temp, simple and it works


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  #19  
Old 10-08-2013, 12:49 PM
samuraistuart samuraistuart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lester View Post
Stu, I think you meant that what she doesn't know won't hurt YOU.

Doug
Spoken like you might have some experience in this realm, Doug!!!! Carl....being that is was my first time to experiment with the crock pot.....I had my thermometer handy, believe me! I used it to stir the oil, constantly, to make sure the temperature of the whole oil bath was spot on 130F. I constantly checked the temp of the oil near the surface, in the middle, and down below. To be quite honest, I haven't been able to tell a difference in blades quenched in room temp oil or 130F oil (not that i have done any serious testing or experimentation). I defer to the experts, though......they say it is best warmed to 130F. Maybe the change in viscosity as temp increases really does help the quenching properties of the oil.
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  #20  
Old 10-09-2013, 04:42 AM
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Do a break test at both temps and compare. If there is a difference it should show up in the grain pattern under a magnifying glass. Of course, that is relative to how consistent you heat your steel prior to quenching. Choose the one that gives you the finest grain pattern. Should look like velvet not cornbread.


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  #21  
Old 10-09-2013, 08:11 PM
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Everyone says to do a break test on a blade. I despise the idea of doing all of that work on a blade and then breaking it. Is there any other option? Maybe grinding halfway, or a rough quick grind? Would that be acceptable?


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  #22  
Old 10-09-2013, 08:38 PM
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Nobody said you had to make a shiny perfect knife to break but you do need to make a 'real' knife. In other words, the same steel you plan to use, the same heat treatment, and the same grind and edge. Grind to 220 and that's a plenty good enough finish, even 120 finish would be OK. Sharpen it, test the edge for flex and chip, test the cutting ability, test the tip by sticking in wood and twisting it out - abuse the heck out of it doing every nasty cutting job you can think of.

THEN break it and check the grain. If it looks good then you know you did it right and keep doing exactly that. If any part of the test failed the grain might show you why so refine the heat treat and do it again. How it breaks tells you a lot too. If it snaps right away it's too brittle and that's either a low tempering temperature or bad grain structure from a bad quench process. If it bends into a loop and doesn't break at all it probably didn't hold an edge very well - too soft.

Anybody can polish a blade and put on a fancy handle. For a knife maker that's not good enough - he wants to KNOW that he made a knife and not simply something that looks like one...


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  #23  
Old 10-09-2013, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
Nobody said you had to make a shiny perfect knife to break but you do need to make a 'real' knife. In other words, the same steel you plan to use, the same heat treatment, and the same grind and edge. Grind to 220 and that's a plenty good enough finish, even 120 finish would be OK. Sharpen it, test the edge for flex and chip, test the cutting ability, test the tip by sticking in wood and twisting it out - abuse the heck out of it doing every nasty cutting job you can think of.

THEN break it and check the grain. If it looks good then you know you did it right and keep doing exactly that. If any part of the test failed the grain might show you why so refine the heat treat and do it again. How it breaks tells you a lot too. If it snaps right away it's too brittle and that's either a low tempering temperature or bad grain structure from a bad quench process. If it bends into a loop and doesn't break at all it probably didn't hold an edge very well - too soft.

Anybody can polish a blade and put on a fancy handle. For a knife maker that's not good enough - he wants to KNOW that he made a knife and not simply something that looks like one...
Agreed. So, I could just do a simple no handle job and then test to destruction? Beat the dog P out of it and then break it in two... Gotcha!


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  #24  
Old 10-10-2013, 05:09 AM
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Although Ray's description and reasoning are what most of us serious makers subscribe to, in this particular post/thread not so much. My response to Sami was more point specific in that he needs to find out if different temps with his quenchant will make a difference in his heattreating results. He only needs to have two pieces of the same steel with the same thickness and geometry to run the test. Of course, thin as in knifeblade thin, will make it easier to break them both. No need to "make a knife" in this instance.

As far as testing a knife in Ray's description, no need to get fancy with handle application, guards, etc., duct tape works just fine. It's the edge geometry and heat treatment that will make the difference as to whether the blade is serious or a poser.


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  #25  
Old 10-10-2013, 09:19 AM
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Just be careful and wear safety glasses when breaking.


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