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  #1  
Old 01-09-2006, 12:34 AM
Osprey Guy's Avatar
Osprey Guy Osprey Guy is offline
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New Camera...

I've had a Nikon 8700 for awhile now. Soon after buying it I realized that it was more camera than I wanted... or was capable of handling. I basically only bought it for my knife pics. I've tried using it on my last three knives...and I have yet to be able to figure out how to get a decent pic with it. I finally swallowed my pride and conceded that the camera won...it was just too much for me. So I'm just gonna take the loss (a big one) and put it up on e-bay in a day or two (In the meantime I'll probably post it here in our classifieds... for cheap*).

I've still got a lot to learn about taking knife pics. I have accepted the fact that I am definitely not a photographer...but I've got so much on my plate these days that I simply haven't got the time to devote to adding photography as another hobby.

I decided that all I really wanted was a good P&S that was easy to use and would enable me to take serviceable photos of my work...and serve as a good, fun-to-use, all around camera for any other needs that came along (family, parties, occasional pics for my "day job", and such...). With that in mind, I went through a week or so of intense research, and then broke down and bought a new camera. Actually I bought two cameras...

First I bought the Casio EX-P505...It was pretty decent, certainly an unusual and fun little camera, but after just three days I decided I could still do better. So I returned that and got the one that I think is a keeper...the new Canon A620 (7 megs, 4x optical).

I've been playing around with it for the past few days...
I don't have too many of my knives on hand just now, so for my subject I grabbed a kit knife that I made 2 or 3 years ago. With the MOP scales it's probably not the easiest knife for me to have selected as a test subject, but then again if I can shoot this then maybe I can shoot anything.

I wasn't going for anything fancy...no props...just trying to capture a decent image. Like so many others, I'm still having some issues with focusing...but I feel like I'm getting better every time I go at it. I think that the camera is simple to use...and I can access manual settings quickly (and without confusion!). Oh yeah...and it takes amazingly, great movies!

Among other things, over the past few days I've certainly learned what a huge difference changing the background can make! Here's two shots of the same knife (I hope they show up OK...My photohost for the past 4 years has been Club Photo...and I've finally determined that they pretty much suck...but that's where all my images are and so for the time being, I guess I'll stick with them awhile longer). I very much welcome comments:






Dennis Greenbaum

*FYI- I just posted the Nikon 8700 for sale...It's in our Knife and Supply For Sale forums under General Items and Bargains:
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/sh...573#post236573


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Last edited by Osprey Guy; 01-09-2006 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 01-09-2006, 02:10 AM
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Gene Chapman Gene Chapman is offline
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Hi Dennis,

Neat camera and a good buy. I just invested in a Kodak P850, bought it cause tried it out at Costco and found it would do everything needed. It's a 5 MP one, 2 1/2 times the pixels greater than the old one with nice closeup features. . Will be great for grayscale images for blacksmith publishing.

Your photos look great to me. Knife is primo, thanks for sharing.


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  #3  
Old 01-09-2006, 11:52 AM
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Osprey Guy Osprey Guy is offline
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Thanks Gene... So far I'm reasonably happy with the pics I'm getting...although they still seem awfully soft to me. But I'm certain that's got to do with my technique and not the camera (I've been able to shoot other, less reflective objects with more clarity).

I think you got a great camera with that Kodak. From the reviews I read (such as this: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/p850.html ) it sounds like you should be able to get some excellent pics with a really full-featured, easy-to use camera.

I recently bought a very cool (and quite amazing) little camera for our 16 yr old daughter, the Casio EX-S500 (5mg, 3x optical and just .6" thick...and it takes marvelous photos and it's just nuts how something so small can double so nicely as a remarkably decent movie camera). I bought it at Sam's Club and while I was there I had checked out the Kodak P850. It seemed to me to be a very substantial camera (although surprisingly lightweight for its size), that was very user-friendly.

I was impressed with the Kodak...it was one of a few on a very short list of cameras that I thought would satisfy my needs. But early on I decided that one of my mandates for my new camera was that it must have a tilt-and-swivel LCD...something I very much learned to appreciate with the Nikon. And there weren't many cameras out there with that feature that still fit most or all of my needs. And after owning the much larger Nikon, I also wanted to go to something that was more compact....and that led to one of two choices...the Casio P505 or the Canon A620 (the Canon G6 was another distinct possibility...but the new A620 seemed to have almost all the features of last year's, considerably more expensive G6). The Casio has 5mg, 5x optical zoom...and was $100 less than the Canon A620 with its 7mg, 4x optical zoom (The G6 was another $200 higher than the $399 A620).

Like I said previously, the Casio P505 did a decent job...In fact that pics I got with it were quite nice. But it's very tiny, all composite body, gave it a rather plastic, toy-like feel...And the LCD's resolution was not only kinda on the low side, but unlike the Canon it does not gain for low light situations (My wife and I celebrated New Year's Eve with friends at a "romantically" lit restaurant...Although the light was dim I could still plainly see everyone at the table...But when I tried using the camera's LCD I could barely even make out profiles, least of all faces...and there's no viewfinder in that camera to help out in that situation...It was sacrificed to allow for a larger LCD). Worst of all, the pictures I shot with the Casio, although quite nice, all seemed slightly soft and definitely tended to have a lot of noise...even with the ISO set at 100 (Some of my knife images had a sort of unreal, almost "rendered" look about them) Too bad, it was a really, really fun camera.

So that's how I wound up with the Canon A620.

So far I'm very happy with it...Best thing about it is that I can grab it and not feel intimidated. And I think that's the best "feature" of all. When I told my knife book partner Dr David Darom, that I was planning on selling the Nikon 8700 and buying something in its place (he uses the 8700 and had originally advised me to buy mine), he responded by saying "The most important thing is to buy a camera that makes you feel comfortable." I think I found that with the Canon.


Dennis Greenbaum


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Old 01-09-2006, 12:54 PM
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tmickley tmickley is offline
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Dennis, I understand exactly what you mean about taking on another hobby.
I am so far behind the others here it's NOT funny- really. If I don't say this I'll get (rightfully) roasted, 'the proper exposure is the most critical part of this picture stuff, ie focus, (light level), then lighting is HUGE, maybe composition is next." Now with that out of the way, what digital software are you using for post processing?
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Old 01-09-2006, 01:34 PM
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Osprey Guy Osprey Guy is offline
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Tracey-

Thanks for asking (I know I need help).

Believe it or not I have Photoshop CS....and beyond "Auto Levels" and a few other very basic features, I haven't got a clue. You'd think after working with top graphic designers all these years, that at least a little would have rubbed off...But I've always been on the biz end and I've pretty much operated on a need-to-know basis. I know what they can do in terms of end product, and I know how to sell it. And besides...those guys all get paid too much to take away from their billable time in order to teach me anything. (What is with this weird new winking smiley?!?!? Alex, if you see this...please bring back the old "normal" smiley!).

Now on to my settings...

When I shot those two knife pics my camera was set for "Custom"...

Macro was switched on

the flash was turned off,

I have 3 fluorescent daylights and I did a pre-white balance setting prior to shooting,

the ISO was set at 50

I tried diffferent shutter speeds ranging between 1/10-1/20 (anything slower was way too light).

My lens was about 18" from the knife

I used the auto timer so that camera shake was not a factor,

and I tried every different focus setting available!

When I was done I played around with PS CS until I got something fairly useable.

For what it's worth, I do know that everytime I've ever posted using Club Photo, the pics look like crap to everyone else...I know it's not just the way I'm posting, I've confirmed that there are problems there. And with all that, I'm at a loss to explain why these look slightly out of focus, but then the shot of the Nikon in the For Sale thread looks pretty darned good (I think).

So,...do you have any suggestions for me? I promise you...I'd truly welcome any ideas or comments that might help. If anyone's willing, I can e-mail them my original file(s) to see how much of my problem is in post production.

Thanks!


Dennis


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Last edited by Osprey Guy; 01-09-2006 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 01-09-2006, 08:23 PM
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I am probably the least qualified to answer this but that's never stopped me before. I'll be intentionally wrong on a point or two here to allow one of the other guys an opening!

The top half othe blade is totally blown out. That kills the pic right there. If it is that far gone, you usually can't get it back even with agressive Photo shop work.

It's fuzzy. It can be sharper, some how, we just need to figure out how! (you are using a tripod right? hang a weight from a string to your tripod that partially rests on the floor to add 'mass' to your tripod and dampen vibrations.)

You have the ISO right, which is low, but if long shutter speeds give you fuzzy pictures you may be getting some vibration in your tripod. More light will give you a faster shutter speed. It's good you are using the timer. You can probably go to 100 ISO with no increase in 'grain'.

Some photo hosts change the picture either by jpeg'ing the picture and/or changing the the size of the picture. Set up a free account at photobucket.com and make sure when you make a link to post, original size and no additional compression of the pictures. That alone may be the entire issue if your computer shows a lot better picture than your posted pics.

At the home center store, buy several 12" floor tiles. They are a dollar or two each. Coop told them his pregnant wife needed wall paper samples and got some large samples for back grounds. The hobby store will sell lot's of different pretty paper in single sheets or assorted pads for even more backgrounds.

Not all auto functions work in PS, but they usually do. Auto Level's does the most. Learning Photoshop is formidable. I have made very deliberate efforts for at least two years and it still baffles me in some way or other almost every time I use it. Using all the auto buttons is way better than not most of the time but keep in mind some times it's just doesn't work and you will need to undo that step.

Getting the lights right are half the battle. If you haven't already make a light tent. I'll post a picture of my latest version when I get a chance.

I don't know anything about your camera but I'd bet anything there is an aperature priority. Read up on that and try shooting some pic's with the aperature priority in the middle of the range and then at both ends of the range with out changing anything else. You might be surprised at how much that makes a difference in the sharpness of your images when you get the aperature setting right.


I could never manual focus my casio point-and-shoot but i often had a hard time getting it to auto focus when it was pointed at a part of the knife that had a strong shiney reflection. The focus would hunt for some time and then settle for it's best effort and that was often wrong. I had to trick it two different ways; focus on a non-shiney part of the knife and then while holding the button down half way, move the aim where I wanted it and then finish pressing the button for the exposure. You usually can not do this with the timer so you can't jiggle things. I then learned I could just crop composition and focused where it wouldn't hunt and shoot. If it's all shiney, lay a piece of paper across the knife, hold the button half way, move the paper out of the way and shoot. Last, put a prop in the picture, focus on that, crop it in Photoshop.

That's more than enough as I've already stuck my foot in it more than once. Hope that helps.
t.
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Old 01-10-2006, 12:10 AM
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Osprey Guy Osprey Guy is offline
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Thanks Tracey..You sure gave me a lot to digest..and I'll try and respond where I can.

First of all, I've been thinking about the focus problem...and at least part of it may be tied to my tripod. For the past couple of years I've been setup in a corner of my basement, which has heavily padded, wall-to-wall carpet...and therein lies the possible culprit. I've been shooting on a floor that has a lot of give! So at the very least, when I press down on the button to focus there is an almost imperceptible movement. So the focus gets set in one position (ever-so-slightly closer to the knife) and when the timer goes off (without my depressing the button) the camera is in a different position. I'm gonna try temporarily moving my entire setup upstairs, where I have hardwood floors...and lets see what happens then.

In terms of lighting I think I'm not doing a good enough job of diffusing. As you point out there's a lot of light hitting the top half of that blade. For a couple of years now I've been using the old "upside down, translucent storage box with a hole cut in the side/bottom trick"...and I think it's outlived whatever usefullness it may have had. Time to come up with something a little closer to your setup (I saw your post)...That certainly seems easy enough...a quick trip to Home Depot and to Wally World and I should be ready to go.

I've got tons of backgrounds...I get them at the various craft stores...sheets of decorative papers for $.50-$1.00 apiece. For around $15 bucks I can walk out with quite a diverse selection.

As stated before I do think that I need a new host. Unfortunately I have little choice but to maintain my account with Club Photo...I have hundreds of pics hosted there that are posted throughout 1/2 dozen different forums (knives, flashlights, misc)

I'll also try playing around with shutter and aperture settings...

Well, let's see how I do with all that...and then I'll worry about my Photoshop skills.

Thanks again for your help!!!


Dennis Greenbaum

BTW-In case anyone missed it, I sold the Nikon 8700. Thanks!


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Old 01-10-2006, 01:51 AM
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Buddy Thomason Buddy Thomason is offline
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Dennis - I like your two images above. The blade type has got to be one of the most difficult to light and capture because the large reflective surfaces point in different directions. That can be maddening. Everything else came out nicely though. Tracy's made some good observations and I'm sure in a short while you'll be getting the results your well-trained eye is looking for.

Hope you'll join in the 'contest' fun too. I'd have to say that is the thing that has taught me more than anything else and continues to show me areas where I need to find answers.


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Old 01-10-2006, 10:57 AM
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Osprey Guy Osprey Guy is offline
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Thanks Buddy...

I'm going to try some of Tracey's suggestions...and perhaps for now I might be better off choosing a slightly less challenging test subject...at least until I get a better feel for what I'm doing.

I just recently started a new business with a partner and with all that comes in a start-up enterprise it's very time consuming. So I don't want to make any promises, no matter how well intentioned,... but I do think that the challenge of submitting an image for the contest might be just what I need to give me the incentive to help raise my own skills. I'll keep it high up on my to-do list and let's see what happens...

Thanks again.


Dennis Greenbaum


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