Lawnmower blades and leaf springs

[Watson]

I have some questions about scrap steel for blades.
Anything in particular to look for in old lawnmower blades? I picked up three for free from a lawnmower shop yesterday, one .133 thick, one .15 thick and a Snapper blade .165 thick. The guy at the shop said he thought I would like the quality of the steel in the Snapper blade.
The other questions are about leaf springs. If I go to a scrap yard, will they be able to to tell me what year/maker a piece of leaf came from? I have heard the best are from Ford and Chevy circa 1950-1970. Is this right? Or frankly will just about any leaf spring work?
Thanks for any advice.

[hammerdownnow]

For the springs, if you want to be relatively certain it is 5160. Thru the 50's and 60's it was pretty much the standard. Lawn mower blades are often 1095. As for your measurements, they don't mean a thing to me. How much is that in 'merican?

[Ray Rogers]

That is 'merican, Hammer, it's just thousandths of an inch way of saying an little more than 1/8th inch - but you knew that already.

You can use scrap steel with fair confidence like Hammer says but the bottom line is you are not likely to really know what steel you have in most cases. Good, clean carbon steel is incredibly cheap, already annealed, flat and square and ready to use. That, plus the advantage of knowing precisely what you are working with is well worth the cost to most of us.

It's elementary, my dear Watson .......

[Tamahagane]

what about poor saps like me that haven't had a penny to their name in several months?

[Ray Rogers]

As a full time knifemaker my financial situation doesn't sound much different than yours. If your intent is to make knives to pass the time then it won't matter what you use. On the other hand, if you are hoping to relieve financial stress you will likely be ahead of the curve by purchasing your materials. I'm not trying to say this is true for everybody - there are a few exceptions - but I believe I'm talking to Newbies here. Trying to wrestle a leaf spring into a piece of metal that can then me used to make a good knife takes considerable effort, knowledge, and resources. If you start with the wrong spring all of that and more ends up wasted. My Mom used to call it 'being penny wise but dollar foolish'.......

[JTS]

Hello, all.

I'm new to this forum, though not new to metal working. I just have to reply to Watson and Tamahagane. Lawn mower blades and the like are just fine to learn on, especially if you're broke, like most of us. Mower blades tend to be medium carbon steel, sometimes with nickel or some other alloying add in to make it shock resistant. They make pretty good chopping knives and machetes for the same reason they make good mower blades.
Another good source of steel is the local sawmill, if there is such a thing in your neck of the woods. I use a lot of saw steel because it's free and it makes a pretty good knife. The mill I get my stuff from crashes a head saw about once a week or so, and they just cut the blade up- it's a big band saw with teeth on both edges- and toss it on the scrap pile. There are also trim saws. They're about 2 feet in diameter and just over an eigth of an inch thick. You can section this stuff up with a torch, stack it and forge weld for a thicker piece. Try welding a piece of saw steel between two hunks of mower blade.
Just don't give up. Blacksmiths throughout the ages have made do with what they had, and with rare exception were not real rich. We can do the same, only the stuff people throw away is lots better now. When you've made a few knives, then you can start buying your steel, and that's a good idea if you're gonna go pro, for all the reasons already listed.

JT

[hammerdownnow]

As a duffer, hobbiest, packrat, eco nut survivalist type. I love to play with recycled steel. I take great delight in finding resourses for suitable steel of which to make a knife. Part of the fun and education can be had from trying to identify what you have by comparison and experience. As a steel beater I mostly look for round stock, but I have made knives from mower blades and leafspring. As Ray says both are tough to work for a beginner because of the thickness and having to cut it down to a managable size. As a scrounger of steel useing primative tools, it is wise to look for a sourse close to the size you need. There is no shame in reuseing something that was bound for the scrapyard anyway. In fact, you should be proud that you are giving it a whole new life. Bo Randall, one of the most famous knife makers ever, said he made his first knife from a file. A file, now thats a good thing to start with. It is flat and relatively knife shaped to begin with. Just make sure it is an old one. New ones are sometimes case hardened crap steel. Old Nickleson, Lenox or Black diamond are usually 1095 tool steel or close enough. A look thu an old rusty tool box. or a trip to the flea market and 5 bucks will get you a handfull. Then you got to get them soft enough to work with. Do you know how to do that?

[Watson]

Hammer: I've stashed a few rusty files -- Nicholson and Simonds. To soften them for working, you just heat to non-magnetic red and let cool slowly in air or vermiculite or kitty litter, right?

[hammerdownnow]

Yes, that is right. It is fun to make knives in the primative style. Please feel free to join us in the Outpost forum. They keep us way down at the bottom of the list so we don't embarrass them infront of company or set on the good furnature.

Outpost

[Watson]

Hammer: You mentioned you prefer round stock. Other than old coil car springs, what sort of round stock do you hunt for? Last time I rummaged for old files at a junk shop, there were all sorts of this and that tools in round stock, particularly tire irons. But as with everythig else, I can't imagine every tire iron is good steel. (This is where Ray's very common-sense advice to just buy some bar stock from a reputable supplier sounds very wise). Still, part of the fun seems to be in the hunt ...

[hammerdownnow]

If I could buy some bar stock here local, I would. If I had a commisioned sale I would use known steel. From what I have been able to find out, tire irons are generally 1085. I don't mind saying 5160 kicks my butt, but I would like to try coil spring. Other things to experement with are big allen wrenches, crowbars, open and box wrenches, You can make a cool Karambit with a box end left on. Rebar from a bridge project, ( the green painted stuff). Any thing you can find that you suspect to be or is called "tool steel". All kinds of junk from cars. Springs tortion bars gear shift levers ect. Awhile back I was playing around with bed frame angle and got some very good results with the piece I had. It is important to test a piece of each new steel you find. I make far more blades than i ever finish into a knife. If you like to test, I do, then it is fun. here is a pic of a intergral I am working on.

Tire iron 4 1/2" blade 1/16" thick 7/8" wide

[hammerdownnow]

Here are some sites of interest.



primal fires

Jonsey tutorial

[JTS]

Yeah. What he said.

Mr. Hammerdownnow, that is one nice looking blade.

Testing is the answer, of course. I've made decent masonry chisels out of 3/4" rebar, forged and quenched but no temper drawn. The next piece of rebar might be pure iron, you just gotta test. Bed frame steel is the same way. Automotive coil springs are a lot more predictable and they come in a variety of convenient sizes. Most of the chisels, drifts and punches I use are made of it. It also makes good knives, and is often of a size that lends itself to larger projects like a camp knife. Car axles make pretty good striking tools. Some of my hardy tools are made of axel, and I've seen some nice hammer heads made of it. I've not had great results with shock absorber shafting, nor with hydraulic cylinder rams. Seems those things are case hardened.

Most of the stuff mentioned in this thread can be picked up free, or at minimal cost. It's not the material that costs, it's the processing.

JT

[Bearpaw]

Greetings all,
Using used 5160 springs is a fine source of cheap stock. An occasional drawback is stress fractures found after heat treating. Old Cat track pins, 4140 make good hammers and are cheap to free at repair shops. A friend of mine in Ely MN uses old lawn mower blades and chain saw bars in his Damascus mix with good results. I recently make a couple of blades from chain saw chain and hope to broaden his horizons. Cable is fun to work with, 'check Gene Osborn's web site'.
Have fun, Bearpaw