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  #16  
Old 10-28-2015, 12:50 AM
damon damon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
I don't think I'd complicate things by trying to make a flip-top anvil. Rail is fairly cheap, it isn't really large, so if you want two types of anvil just make two anvils. Lots of guys have more than one anvil....
WHAT..... MORE THAN ONE ANVIL......


*rushes out to get more anvils
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  #17  
Old 10-28-2015, 06:17 AM
Ed of all trade Ed of all trade is offline
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The three blocks clamped together are so you get the two outside blocks spaced right, the thin cardboard is a spacer so that the hardy tool slides in and out easy. You grind the end of your rail where the center block will set to give the center block space in that direction. After you weld the outside of the two outside blocks and remove the center block you have a big grove the size of your hardy tool and the 1/4" plate makes it into a box or hardy hole. I have never posted a pic on line but I just got a camera yesterday and I will try to get a pic posted today. Ed
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  #18  
Old 10-28-2015, 10:18 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Couple of things you might want to consider.
The wheel weights are likely to be cast iron, if so, you will find it very interesting welding RxR track to CI. May have to bolt them together. If they are steel you should have no problem.

The RxR track will "sing" pretty loud due to the thin waste. You can minimize the singing and greatly increase the usable mass of the track by finding some drops at a steel supply place cut them to fill the web on both sides then clamp and weld into place (this will in most cases nearly double your weight).

With a little thinking you can use Ed's idea for a hardy hole and incorporate it in with the fitting of the plates.
Also consider what kind of hardies you intend to make/use. If they are the type that the energy used for operation is over the hardie hole you will need to have more mass below point of impact - such as a cut-off, some styles of fullers, bicks and other tools. If they are designed to just key with the hardy hole and rest over the mass of the anvil, that issue is not so important.

Think them through. Have fun with it.


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  #19  
Old 10-28-2015, 03:23 PM
Ed of all trade Ed of all trade is offline
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Crex
I just stepped my cutoff over so the force went down onto the rail. Ed
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  #20  
Old 10-28-2015, 07:39 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Thanks guys great ideas to ponder over. Ed...thanks for the re post i get it now i dont know why i didnt in the first place sometimes my brain goes on little vacations with out telling me it might of been one of those days. What i was thinking for the hardy hole was kinda a mesh of rays idea and yours. First weld on square tubing. The only square tube i can find is kinda thin so i got to thinking weld the square tube just as kinda a outline so i know its exact right size and shape then weld square stock or cut up pieces of plate to the sides to give it a lil more strength. Using that square tube makes it easy to mount and make tools for it as i also picked up another square tube that is a little smaller and fits in the bigger tube perfectly. I have a feeling i will end up making most of the tools for it so if mass underneath becomes a problem as Crex was saying i just make them stepped over (as ed also said) and if i do buy one i have a angle grinder and a welder so probilly can fix that problem.

Crex.. Does adding "weight" to the side really help besides silencing the ring. I had actually thought about that when i first got the rail. I figured bigger + heavier = better. But i was told that welding pieces onto the sides would increase the performance of the rail because it is not all "one piece". Unless you were to forge weld these pieces onto the side (wich my forge is not big enough to do ) it would not do anything to improve anything. True/false??

I did alot today i finally cut the coatings and wool out of the bottom of the forge (as ray has been telling me to do for a while.) i wasnt using any flux so i just left it the way it was but now i finished drawing out that billet yesterday so its time to cut stack and weld again so i fixed it so its got a whole half brick (used to be a very thin piece of brick i had grinded down cause the half brick sat to high when it was ontop of coatings). Also problem i noticed this time around that i didnt last time i drew out this billet is hammer marks. So i tried making a flatter. I make it very simple and it may not last long but it does work so it good for me i just took a 2 1/2 by 2 1/2 and 1/2 in thick plate and welded a piece of steel i found 1 1/4 diameter rod. Tomorow hardy hole! Does any one know any other tricks besides the flatter to get hammer marks out? As i said it works but i think i should have made it a lil bigger and its kind of crudely put together so i dont know if it will stand up to the constant hitting using it for 10 mins was fine but i dont know how it will hold uo longer (find out tomorow) thats why i was wondering if ther is a better way
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  #21  
Old 10-28-2015, 08:56 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Concerning your hammer marks, the best way is to not get them in there in the first place. Mind you, that takes far more skill than I have but it is the goal the big boys shoot for. Your flatter and any other technique these other guys can suggest should help reduce the hammer marks but, ultimately, you will need to grind out whatever is left after the flatter, has done its work.

Now you know one of the two reasons I suggested that you go ahead and make a blade from your low-count damascus before you worry about running up your layer count very far. Make the blade, and let's see if you can find the second reason ....


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  #22  
Old 10-29-2015, 04:46 AM
Ed of all trade Ed of all trade is offline
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Dtec 1 Glad you can see what I was saying, I tried to post the pics but with a new camera and a new computer It will take longer than I had to work on it. Ed
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  #23  
Old 10-29-2015, 10:45 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Thanks guys so ok 2 questions......the first time i drew the billet out i really didn't notice the hammer marks maybe a couple little ones but not like this time. Now maybe i just wasn't paying attention as much or maybe i payed more attention when hammering i don't know. Any way i cut it into 3 pieces, forge welded it back together and now i have drawn it out again. I want to cut and weld 1 more time. So having hammer marks will effect the weld right? Just me thinking but if there is defects and the steel aint perfectly flat the weld might not stick good in those spots. I want to try and flatten them first so i wont have to grind to deep into the billet at this point. Am i right about hammer marks effecting the weld? Ok also I know there are a million of different things to do to create a pattern in the billet ( twisting, grinding patterns, ect...) Is there any sites or info out there on what certain actions create what general type of pattern? I haven't been able to find to much info on that. Or if anyone has any tips on this they can offer i would appreciate it. Thanks again
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  #24  
Old 10-29-2015, 11:33 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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QUOTE: if anyone has any tips on this they can offer i would appreciate it

Yes, my tip is to not concern yourself with complex patterns at this time. Cut and stack one more time if you want to but then make your blade and finish it. This is Random pattern and it is very common and popular.

As with the forge and to a lesser extent with the anvil you're trying to do too much too fast. Make a blade with your damascus. Doing that will show you the quality of your damascus and illustrate any problems you might be having before you spend a lot more time and materials to find the same problems (if any) ....


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  #25  
Old 10-29-2015, 12:21 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Alright... if i just cut and weld again and leave it at that there really would be any pattern pattern right? unless i am missing something just stacking layers and compressing them when it done all you would see is the top layer except when narowing the blade to make the edge there might be a couple stripes. as i said unless i am missing something. i was leaning toward something easy like twisting it up and flatten it back down to make the blade. i have seen complicated patterns wher people grind grooves in a pattern and make a desing then flatten i dont want to do that as far as that goes i agree with to deffinitly too much. i was just wondering if there is some other easy steps (like just twisting)...i think ill just twist it then shape to a blade its actully a big enough to make 2 MAYBE 3 pocket sized knives
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  #26  
Old 10-29-2015, 03:29 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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LOL, you think twisting is easy. Twisting is a simple concept but you may be surprised by the end result. Or, maybe not, won't really know until you try.

It's hard to say exactly what you would get in your Random pattern if you simply stopped now or after one more stack. But, you have a hammer whacking the steel, breaking through layers sometimes, smooshing stuff around. If you have enough layers that process always results in something more interesting than just a stack of layers.

Look at this though: if you stop now and make a blade you might see nothing but a simple stack of layers. OK, that tells you that you have good control over your welds and when you carry things further and want to induce a pattern by cutting, splitting, twisting, etc that your pattern will probably come out much as you imagine it should.

On the other hand, if your simple stack comes out pretty interesting looking then that means the steel is moving around in ways you did not anticipate. Adding more layers will complicate that which will be great for the next Random billet but not so great if you're trying for a specific pattern.

So, in effect, I'm asking you, "how much work are you willing to do before you find out what it is you are actually doing?"...


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  #27  
Old 10-29-2015, 09:23 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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ok well ok i didnt really mean easy what i really ment was it seams easier that most other ways of doing this. even tho i have had some success (so far well as you said i think wont know till its done. but at least i haven't had welds break apart and a few other things i read can happen so i consider that a plus this being by first time forge welding) but it has taken alot of effort i am not saying any of it was easy just using it in relative terms compared to some other things. Also i didnt take the hammer strikes into consideration breaking through layers. I was just thinking all the layers compressing togather. Would a good idea be to grind the surface and dip it in the ferric chloride and see what i have? and decide at that point wether i want to keep going or not? or would dipping it effect the metal where it wouldnt be a good idea to keep going?
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  #28  
Old 10-30-2015, 09:55 AM
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Clean it up and etch it if you want, no harm in that ...


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  #29  
Old 10-30-2015, 07:31 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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ok so i etched (before stacking again) for the MOST part it was solid it did have 3 dots, 1 about the size of a dime at one end and 2 smaller ones that kinda came together about 3/4 the way up from the other ones. the dots or blobs were lighter color than the rest other than that solid darker color. So i cut stacked and welded back together and stopped there for today. I do have a question tho when i was welding i used more flux than last time and i think maybe to much not that it did anything to the steel but there is a BIG puddle of crap on the floor of the forge. This might be a stupid question but will having this puddle of flux cause any negitive effects on any other things i might do in the forge...For example i have a small colection of different types of swords from katana's to egyption khopesh. they are all mounted on the wall in different ways but some because of there shape (like the khopesh) its hard to find mounting hardware that either "fits" the sword or is somewhat invisible so i think i am going to get some square bar and try and make a lil decrotive mount. Will the flux from the puddle get all over that and affect the look of the metal will i have to grind it off if it gets on that steel? Maybe another stupid question is there a way to remove the excess flux from the floor obviously cant wipe it up when its hot. i thought maybe a file but the dust would get all over the inside of the forge melt and cause another problem. i dont know if its necessary like i said might be a stupid question maybe having that puddle there wont do anything at all?
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  #30  
Old 10-30-2015, 09:08 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I just leave it there. It remelts the next time and you can get some use out of it. Yes, it very well could get on any other steel you put in there but so what? After a piece of steel goes through that kind of heat you'll need to grind it clean anyway. However, don't put anything but steel in your welding forge - no copper or brass, etc. That's just asking for trouble ....


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