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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 03-30-2015, 08:47 PM
RedstickJP RedstickJP is offline
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First forge

Built my first gas forge today. Just made of fire brick and refractory. Not the best from what I read, but I got them for free so I figure it couldn't hurt to try it out. Gonna add the pics once I get to the computer.
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:03 PM
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Yup post up some pics


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  #3  
Old 03-30-2015, 10:16 PM
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What did you use for a burner?


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  #4  
Old 03-30-2015, 10:20 PM
RedstickJP RedstickJP is offline
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All I have right now is a torch w/ map gas. I've seen videos of people using just a torch in small forges, but I'll have to wait Til it all sets and dries to test it. I plan on building a small burner, still trying to figure out how to get one built/set up. I like the idea of the one you put on your mini travel forge I saw in the tutorials sticky.
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  #5  
Old 03-31-2015, 08:00 AM
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Congratulations on taking the big step. Now all the real fun begins.
Unless that's soft firebrick, the Mapp torch most likely won't come close to getting you up to forging heat. Even with soft brick, your chamber looks to be a little large for efficient heating.
Got dimensions?
Can you show torch entry port?
Try it, can't hurt, but imagine you will be upgrading your torch.

Also a rectangular chamber makes it much harder to get an even heat with one torch. Circular with interior entry at a tangent gives a swirling effect that greatly increases efficiency. Thought I had an example pic handy, but can't find at moment.

Not trying to be a "downer", you are already headed in the right direction. But, doing it on your own is full of trial and error. Building a bigger/better torch is very simple, lots of source info on these. Just keep to the simpler designs until you get a better understanding of how they work.

Keep us posted on your trials.


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  #6  
Old 03-31-2015, 09:43 AM
RedstickJP RedstickJP is offline
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Opening is 3 3/8" wide and 2.5" tall, 9.75" deep. You can see torch entry port on the front view pic. Have it going in angled toward the back. Thinking about changing it to come in from the back for the new blower and just plugging the old hole. And since I have the room, I'm thinking about taking a 2.5" pipe packing refractory around it to give me more of a circular interior. Can I use the fire clay mortar I have and just mix in other ingredients to make a cast able refractory? Or would I need to use something else? I've seen tons of diff recipes online, I just don't know what would work best on a budget

Last edited by RedstickJP; 03-31-2015 at 10:27 AM.
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  #7  
Old 04-01-2015, 07:34 AM
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Lot smaller than it appears, so may work ok. Torch placement will be important. Shooting front toward back will cause all kinds of backpressure problems and not really heatup the chamber very well. Shooting directly from the back forward just creates a bigger torch blowing in your face and not really creating a heat chamber for forging. Just not good science.
Your chamber is small enough I'd forget about the pipe for now. You could "round" the corners with a little more mortar or cut some corners from more firebrick similar to quarter round trim and mortar into the corners to semi round out the chamber. Pipe will just add to the heat sink problem noted below.
Move your torch port to the side about 2/3d's back. Come through at about mid height of chamber or a little lower with the nozzle pointed upward so that the flame is making it's first contact with the interior just past dead center top and slightly angled toward the front emphasis on SLIGHTLY. This should give enough swirl to the flame to heat most of the chamber fairly evenly, reducing hot spots. Mostly you do not want the flame hitting directly into any wall or on your steel. <>
Pretty sure the addition of a blower on a forge this side will not work well, if at all. You'll be blowing your flame and heat out the door. I don't use blowers, found by tweaking venturi style torches just a little, my forges get to welding heat without the need of forced air .... or electricity.
You would probably be much better off getting some K wool and thin coating it with hi temp mortar if you are not going to build a more robust torch. Castable linings are very dense in comparison and act as heat sinks until they reach a high enough temp to contribute to forge efficiency this equals fuel burn and you are working with a small torch and fuel supply which totals out at not so good performance results. It's always about trade offs, since once the castable reaches forging heat you can reduce fuel feed quite a bit and it will maintain. But, you do need the "extra" heat up front. Either approach can be quite efficient once you learn to tweak things.
K-wool or soft fire brick act differently in that they are actually insulators by nature, keeping most of the heat inside and not adsorbing it. Coated with a thin coat of hi temp mortar and followed by a thinner coat of ITC 100 or Bubble Alumina and the interior walls act like a simple catalytic converter of sorts that greatly improves fuel efficiency and interior heat control. Especially useful where your heat source supply is concerned (Mapp Torch).
I realize this sounds a bit complicated, but actually it is not. Once you have built a good working forge and see how easy it is you will wonder what all the fuss is about.
Hope this is not too confusing.


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  #8  
Old 04-01-2015, 09:09 AM
RedstickJP RedstickJP is offline
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Not confusing at all, and makes a lot of sense. I didn't real a Venturi was so simple until I went up and read the tutorial on them. Only question I had is there any tip on the front of the pipe that goes into the forge? And I have extra brick so I like the idea of cutting the angled pieces to "round out" the inside. Trying to put in castable was gonna be a pain...test fit the pipe and there was barely room on the sides. I can't wait for Rays video to get here...I already know I'll be watching it in my patrol car
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  #9  
Old 04-01-2015, 12:45 PM
RedstickJP RedstickJP is offline
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ok. so I got a burner put together ...except for attaching the nozel for the hose. I ended up having a spare 10psi regulator/hose that I had bought for a broken fish fry burner. Since I already had purchased another burner I was able to canabalize the nozel off of the broken burner. I bought a valve to put between the regulator and hose (gonna have to go buy adapters to get the right fit though. only problem I'm seeing is that the nozel used a clamp type fitting in the hose, and I don't know how to get that on the hose I have...thought about cutting the threaded piece off of the hose and just clamping the nozel in, but I dont have enough experience with propane fittings to know if this would work/be safe. Any thoughts? I based the design off of the tutorial in the sticky.
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  #10  
Old 04-01-2015, 01:02 PM
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I'm not sure you need that nozzle thing at all. What does the end of the hose that will go to the burner look like? Is it just a big open hole with threads in it or maybe on the outside of it? If so, look for a brass fitting at the hardware store that will simply plug or cap the end of the hose - just close it off entirely. Then, drill a tiny hole in the cap/plug (not more than 1/16", smaller if possible). That's it. No nozzle, no special burner flare tip, you're done. That's not to say that you can't use those things to make a fancier burner that might work even better at some point but that burner is called Dirt Simple for a reason so keep it simple ...


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Old 04-01-2015, 01:15 PM
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Ray sells a good DVD on forge building. It covers making a burner among other things.


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  #12  
Old 04-01-2015, 01:24 PM
RedstickJP RedstickJP is offline
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was gonna do just like you said in tutorial, was just wondering about re-purposing the nozzle since i already had it, and it has threads to screw into the flat bar. hole in the tip is about 1/32". There is a ferrell gas here in town, and i've been told that they will put the fitting on my current hose for about $2, I may give them a call. Does the rest of the setup look like it will work though? aside from my current hose issues lol. Looking at it again I may want a longer hose...i like the idea of keeping my tank farther away from the forge lol. And Ray thanks again for shipping the video so quick, I can't wait to get it, I'm sure it will answer many of my questions I have lol.
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:53 PM
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I think the rest will work and I agree about a longer hose if you can get it. The nozzle will also likely work if you can get it attached, otherwise you still have the 'plug' alternative ...


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  #14  
Old 04-01-2015, 02:30 PM
RedstickJP RedstickJP is offline
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Gonna look for a longer hose. The company I mentioned apparently makes custom hoses so I may just have them put a long one together for me so I don't have to make any modifications
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  #15  
Old 04-02-2015, 06:18 AM
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Longer hose is a plus for sure.
May run into issues with the 0-10 reg. all will depend on the rest of your torch dimensions: size/length of pipe and size of jet/orfice. there is a ratio to maintain for optimum performance of torch. So many approaches and designs available that it is difficult to figure first time around. Pick a torch design known to work and build to spec as any and every deviation makes some difference +/-.

? - Is your little brass valve a needle valve or just an open/close valve? If just o/c (1/4 - 1/2 turn) then position just past reg. is good as you need to be able to shut things off fast in emergencies without being close to flame/forge. If a needle valve, recommend putting in line close to torch so that you can easily regulate fuel feed and fine tune operation while watching what is going on. Keep in mind that fuel volume and line pressure are related but different animals. Get control of both and you can fine tune your forge's temp to a much greater degree and get the best fuel economy.

A flare at the end of your torch can make a difference with venturi style torches, but will mainly depend on the rest of the forge design as to whether it's needed or not. You will have to try it without to see.

1/32 & 1/16 sound a little large for a venturi torch, but then you are working with a design mod I am not familiar with. All of my forges work fine with .025" to .028" jet/orfice. Have no problem getting welding heats with them. I find the smaller jet is more fuel efficient over time.


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