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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #16  
Old 08-10-2016, 07:39 AM
WBE WBE is offline
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1500? is a tad bit high for 01. Not terribly too high, but definitely higher than necessary. There is really no need to go higher than 1475?. A one hour 1200? separate stress relief heat before hardening is beneficial to the steel also. "Swirling" a blade is almost a guarantee to warp it, but it should be moved fore and aft, or up and down in the oil.
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  #17  
Old 08-10-2016, 08:38 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hatfield View Post
I have been making some tactical knives for our local police dept. SWAT team out of 0-1. I normally use D-2 and S30V for my hunting knives. I harden the 0-1 at 1500 degrees for 15 minutes in a digital controlled kiln and quench in Brownell's "Tough quench" oil that has been heated to 125-135 degrees.
Then into a toaster oven at 375-400 degrees for one hour until my kiln cools down. Out of the toaster oven and allowed to cool to room temp then into the kiln for a 2 hour temper at 400 degrees. I use a separate temp gauge in the toaster oven to verify the correct temperature.
Out of the last 10 knives I am getting a reading on my hardness tester of 59-60 RC with the majority dead on at 60 RC.
Do not swirl the knife in the oil as I did on one knife and got a warp in the blade where it had been hollow ground to about 40 thousands. By not swirling the other knives in the oil, they came out with no warps and straight as they should be.
I finish the knives with removable linen micarta handle scales and give the steel a baked on coat of Brownell's Gun Kote for rust resistance. Having removable handle scales allows me to refinish the knife in the future with a new coat of Gun Kote and bake at 300 degrees if needed.
So since you post this and you're using to make knives for the PD, I assume you've tested and gotten good results with edge deflection and sharp retention?

In the oil quench I shuffle my blades forward and back and up and down with a slicing motion, but not side to side. I did that once and shazaam...it really WILL cause warping!


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  #18  
Old 08-11-2016, 01:42 AM
Bob Hatfield Bob Hatfield is offline
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I have had excellent results with the edge retention on my knives. It is one of the most compliments I get from my customers. I use a convex grind on the edge and that along with a good heat treatment gives me the retention and have never had a problem with deflection. I contribute that to paying attention to the heat treatment process and the convex grind helps.
On one of the first tactical knives that went to a SWAT officer, he had to use the knife to cut though a double sheetrock wall to gain entry into another room on a tactical operation. He advised that the finish on the knife now has many scratches, but the knife cut though the walls like it was butter.
I also think the use of a good quenching oil helps in the heat treating process and I have had excellent results with the Brownell's Tough Quench oil resulting in consistant hardness on the 0-1 knives.


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  #19  
Old 08-11-2016, 09:25 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I second using Tough Quench on O1. My O1 knives also get raves for edge retention. I use a regular edge for skinning knives and convex for choppers ......


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  #20  
Old 08-11-2016, 09:50 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Okay so about quenching oils...

You have the Parks 50 which you can get in 5 gallon containers. I think it runs about $120.
Just mentioned was Brownells Tough Quench @ $60 per gallon. This is the first I've heard of this oil.
And I see a Citgo Quenchol oil available at Jantz for $50 per gallon or $150 for 5 gallons.

Using O-1 and lets say 1095, is one of these oils appreciably better than Canola Oil? I realize at least with 1095 most agree it (Canola) is on the very edge of being able to quench quickly enough.

What is the difference between the others? Is on "best" for 1095 vs. O1 or would one work just as well for either steel? And what about the life of the oil. How many quenches can one expect from a gallon of oil?

Don't know if I want to pay shipping on 5 gallons of oil if I can get some long life out of one gallon and it is appreciably better than Canola oil... Just have no experience with it all.


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  #21  
Old 08-11-2016, 10:06 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Either Parks 50 or Tough Quench is better - even much better - for 1095 than canola. I would think Parks 50 would work as well with O1 as Tough Quench does but I've never used any other pro oil than TQ so I can't testify for anything else.

I think the general rule of thumb is that a quench tank should contain at least 3 gallons of oil. Mine does. I'm still using the original oil bought around 13 years ago. Some gets burnt away but loss is usually because it drips off the blade so I have an extra gallon to use for topping off the tank as needed...


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  #22  
Old 08-11-2016, 11:47 AM
samuraistuart samuraistuart is offline
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With O1 tool steel, P50 is a little too fast...technically. I have quenched a few blades of O1 into P50 without issue. Others have had some micro cracks on the surface of the blade when doing that. An 11-13 second oil is usually recommended for O1. The pearlite nose on O1 is like 10 seconds....so a fast oil is not needed at all. 52100 has a PN of around 3 seconds....fast oil not required... however I do use P50 for 52100 and some smiths actually water quench 52100. 1095 and W2 have a PN of less than 1 second...fast oil needed.

1095 is indeed best with a fast oil like P50. Thinner cross sections will harden OK in canola warmed to 130?F, but approaching 1/8"...you may have some pearlite left over in the matrix, especially above 1/8". Some steels like the Hitachi White and Blue need an extremely fast quench...P50 works well...brine is better. The Hitachi steels, due to being a more clean and pure steel, are the only steels a brine quench is actually recommended. W2 and 1095 to some extent...with some failure rate (25%...just guessing).
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  #23  
Old 08-13-2016, 02:21 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Nice info to have. My last job used the Exxon stuff. It seemed rather thin so I have always used a thin oil for quenching. The college down the hill from me when they have blacksmithing classes uses the Brownells stuff, so good to go on that. I haven't done any pro HT since I lost my job at that machine shop in 10-2008. I did talk to professional HT company techs, but it was mostly about the D2 we had to do all the time. The O1 was for tooling punches and dies and almost never for blades so I never really got past "the book" on O1.

Seems there is more to say on that steel than "the book", but I always got RC 59-60 with it, but maybe lost some toughness I'm guessing, but hard to say as breaking a 3/16" thick knife is hard to do, but O1 holds an edge even when HT in a forge. I have one O1 blade left from back then and it's not quite finished and was designed to kill boar with and is 1/4" thick @ RC 59. I put a false edge on one side and it could be converted into an Arkansas Toothpick though a bit lopsided, so maybe not,lol.
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