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  #1  
Old 08-22-2005, 10:28 AM
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"Model of the Week" (Week no. 4 Model 4)

Hi all!

Well it's Week 4, so let's see your Model 4s!
These include the larger "Big Game and Skinners" with a 5", 6" or 7" blade; and the smaller ones with 4.5" blades.

I have yet to obtain one of these, but we're counting on you who do, to show us yours. Thanks!

Cheers!

David


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  #2  
Old 08-22-2005, 12:09 PM
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Moose,
I know that Ron can "chirp" in on this with more informaton, but to anyone who would like to know the history of the Model #4 "Big game, and skinner", they would need to go back to the big one...WW11. Bo was getting many more calls for his fighters than than he was for his hunters. The "hunter" back then, as best I can tell, was a bit more complicated and time consuming to make than the fighters. A look at some of Bo's early work can make this fairly evident, especially with "fancy" handles, as Bo called them. Multi layered spacers, a heavier hilt, etc. made these gorgeous blades more of a "back burner" project.
The simple solution to this problem was to re-design the "hunter" to fit the mold of the "fighters" and "stilettos"! Bo did this towards the end of 1943, or so, and sportsmen could obtain a hunter with handle, hilt, and butt caps similar to the fighters. This idea did not slow down the flow of production. (I hate to use that word, "production", when it comes to Randalls). All of these new ideas are still utilized today. The brass single hilt used on a hunting knife is within specifications of the double one used on fighting knives. Great idea that has stood the test of time.
The first Model #4's, although I don't think they were numbered "4" were available with longer blades. I believe that 6 and 7" were the norm. I know that the old 1945 catalog lists Model #4's available with a 7" "only" blade, but I'm sure there were some variances in this, although I do not remember seeing any "small" model #4's until later. Boblade: Help us out here! Did I not hear you talking about slightly smaller blades? 6", or 6 1/2"?
At any rate: perhaps that is why Model #4's are known, or were known, as "BIG" game skinners. Over the years that has changed and you can now order Model #4's in 5", 6", or 7" blades of 1/4" stock. You can also order a 4 1/2" Model #4 with 3/16" stock, as well as a 6" model, out of 1/4" stock with a #6 grind, although that knife is only available in carbon steel. Hope this gets this thread off to a good start. I also hope that we hear from "Boblade" to make some sense of all this rambling. I have emailed a pic of a 5" model, which should get posted later on. Best for now, Captain Chris Stanaback


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  #3  
Old 08-22-2005, 01:08 PM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Hi Cap'n,

Thanks for starting out with the history of this model. I think I can flesh it out a bit, but won't have time until I get home from work tonight. Until then....

Best,

Ron
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  #4  
Old 08-22-2005, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The "Captain"
I have emailed a pic of a 5" model, which should get posted later on.
And as stated, here is the Captain's photo:


-gary


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Last edited by Raindog; 11-23-2007 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 08-22-2005, 09:53 PM
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This is the stag version of the Randall Knife Society knife #4, a 4-8". To quote from the RKS newsletter concerning the knife:

"A customer sent in an old model of this knife for repairs. Gary [Randall] said he knew this knife existed, after seeing a picture of movie star great, Robert Taylor, wearing one in a World War II, Randall file photo, but had never seen one before. 1,200 knives were sold. 816 stag handle knives and 384 leather."

I wasn't a member at the time that this knife was available and purchased this one from
Spaceport Cutlery.


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Last edited by Raindog; 11-23-2007 at 02:05 AM.
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  #6  
Old 08-22-2005, 10:23 PM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Cap,

Great old 4 you have there!

About the history: There is a seeming disconnect between credible sources as to whether the model 4 as we know it was around during the war years. On one hand Mr. Gaddis states in his book on page 105 that the "Big Game" was developed in the summer of 1945. On the other hand, Mr. Hunt shows a photo of a "4-7" on page 43 of his 1st book that was reportedly carried during the war. However, there is really nothing that sets this knife apart from a 1946 model 4-7: Not the blade grind, not the small stamp, not the spacers, not the handle, not the butt cap, not the sheath. There were a few knives made during WWII that somewhat resembled a skinner grind, but these were known as Bo's "Commando knives" with a sharpened top clip and a double hilt. You see one in Pete's book on page 88. Other examples are in Bob's 1st book on page 27 and in his 2nd book on page 9. Probably the best example is the RKS4 which is a takeoff of the Commando.
About the blade length offerings: There were 3 printings of the 1945 catalog (Unless Mr. Beaucant can ever come up with the elusive 4th). The 1st printing (Blue color with a Model 3-6 on the cover) offered only a 7" version of the Model 4, but the 2nd printing (beige color / Model 4-7 shown on the cover) and the 3rd printing ("woodgrained / model 4-7 shown on the cover) offered both 5" and 7" versions.

I have a couple of 4's and I'm posting a photo of two of them.

The 1st is a 4-7 with translucent Heiser that I figure is maybe '46 or '47.



The other is a 4-5 ivory that I'm guessing is about 1948 (Belgian Congo ivory was 1st offered as a handle material in 1948 and sheath throat rivets were discontinued about the same time).



Best,

Ron
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File Type: jpg 4-7 tranny x.jpg (30.6 KB, 344 views)
File Type: jpg 4-5-ivory x.jpg (32.3 KB, 341 views)
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  #7  
Old 08-23-2005, 04:08 PM
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shipahoymatey shipahoymatey is offline
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Ahoy.....
Here's a 4-5 Heiser Sheath late 50's.
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File Type: jpg Randall 4-5 heiser late 50s.jpg (50.0 KB, 165 views)
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  #8  
Old 08-23-2005, 07:20 PM
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Boblade,
Yeah...Like I tell folks "all of the time": Ya' can get close on some of these ol' Randalls, but it ain't an exact science. There were also some late 43 and 44 Randalls, referred to on occasion as 3 1/2's. I know you have heard of them, Ron. My sketchy mind is good on some recall, but certainly not all. I think there is a photo somewhere of a Model #1, Model #2, and a Model #4 from around late 1943. At any rate, thanks for the update. I'm sure folks can get a pretty good idea about the history of these blades from all that has been posted. Best, Captain Chris Stanaback

P.S. I found the photo. It is on Page #68 of Gaddis' book! Mid 1944, according to Bob. CCS


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  #9  
Old 08-24-2005, 09:43 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Cap,

That knife on page 68 is a "WWII Hunter", the precursor to the model 3 (Check out my post on the Model 3 week). I have it on pretty good authority that it was Pete who coined the phrase "3 1/2", which he used to describe post late '45 Model 3 redesign blade grind upsweeps that are half way between a model 3 and a model 4. The 2nd knife I posted a photo of in the Model 3 week comes close to that discription.

Best as always,

Ron
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  #10  
Old 08-27-2005, 05:06 PM
brasshilt brasshilt is offline
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Model #4

Let's see if this thing works!

Last edited by brasshilt; 10-25-2006 at 10:20 AM.
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  #11  
Old 08-27-2005, 07:45 PM
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Welcome BrassHilt!

Welcome to the Randall Forums BrassHilt!

Your # 4 looks like cool oldy but goody. :cool:

I'll bet out resident "expert" on vintage RMK, BoBlade will have something to add about your neat knife.

If you would like your photos to appear within your post, eliminating the necessity to click on the attachments, just follow the instrucrtion at the top of the forum: INSTRUCTIONS for Posting MULTIPLE IMAGES within your text!

You can still do it by editing your original post.

Cheers!

David


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Old 08-27-2005, 08:51 PM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Moose,

Our friend already knows how old and how neat that knife is.

Thanks for posting it, brasshilt!
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  #13  
Old 09-01-2005, 03:19 PM
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The Model 4 is one of my favorites and this particular #4-5 is one of the favorites in my Randall collection. Seems like such a great, handy little knife—though I haven't used this one for obvious reasons—picked it up a few years ago…
I keep forgetting to order a new one just like it for a user…

Mint #4-5 late 60s – early 70s, standard config— brass, leather, duralumin. JRB sheath.





Here’s the sheath, top, next to a matching #3-6’s sheath:




and back:


Last edited by escapement; 09-01-2005 at 03:23 PM.
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  #14  
Old 09-01-2005, 04:58 PM
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Hi Gary!

Great photos of beautiful examples of a classic Randall and JRB sheaths.

I do like the upward thrust of the #4's blade.

Hmmmm....I'll have to get me one of these one day.

Cheers!

Moosehead


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  #15  
Old 09-01-2005, 10:42 PM
Byrdguy Byrdguy is offline
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Now that there is a right proper pair of huntin knife sheaths. The shiny button tight stitched JRBs are the most beautiful (IMHO) of all the Randall sheaths. :cool:
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blade, brass, forge, handle, hunting knife, knife, knives, randall, silver, stag


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