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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 04-29-2014, 11:07 PM
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Two Brick Forge

G'day

Ive been mucking around trying to create a functional two brick forge. Scored some fire bricks for free, however they are the heavy type and not the light easily shaped lighter bricks (not sure of the correct name) which i cant source anywhere in my location without paying out my a*&$ for shipping.
I shaped a semi circular tunnel in each and am using map gas through a small burner hole at the center of the forge. The tunnel shallows out at the rear to a slot to allow a blade to pass through,which was also an effort to stop too much heat exiting out the back. At first the bricks were housed in a steel frame i fabbed up, including an adjustable cradle for the map torch. I soon worked out that all that steel was just acting as a rather effective heatsink and taking ages to heat up. So i have sinced removed it and just attempted to run it wired together sitting on some other fire bricks.

So my problem; The forge just wont get hot enough, tried the flame at different angles/distances and tried covering the rear hole.
Is my problem with the bricks? I'm thinking they are too dense and suck up too much heat fom the little map torch after watching similar forges on youtube having no trouble heating a 4-5'' blade but with the other light style bricks. (which is all i need to do - a 4-5'' blade)
I was thinking of enlarging the hole and lining with refractory cement?
I dont think a lack of oxygen is a problem after watching plenty of soup can forges work just fine.

If that doesnt work i plan to build an LPG burner and mid sized forge from an old cylinder anyway.

The flame does get a nice swirling action happening


Is the burner too small?


Cheers


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Last edited by Seemus7; 04-29-2014 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 04-30-2014, 12:55 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Yes, those bricks do look like they are sucking up all the heat without reflecting anything back. You might be able to build yourself a blown burner that can handle that kind of mass.

If you want to get the soft fire brick try a pottery supply house. Those soft bricks are used to line kilns with.

Doug


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Old 04-30-2014, 04:52 AM
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The soft firebricks are insulative, the hard firebricks are not. They are definitely sucking up all your workable heat from the map torch.
The map will definitely get hot enough with the soft firebrick Doug is talking about. Actually get too hot if you run it full out.
Keep looking, there is bound to be a source somewhere reasonably close. "Pottery" people are everywhere and they reline their kilns on a fairly regular basis. The used brick will work just as well as new for your purposes and it's easily shaped for tight fits.


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Old 04-30-2014, 06:32 AM
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You definitely go all out when building a piece of gear! That steel forge body you built is very nice looking and will be great once you source some soft firebrick.

You should be able to locate some locally or at least in Tazmania. If not I am sure there would be some available in Melbourne. I would imagine the post would not be too extreme from Aussie to Taz. You could also Web search for refractory in Tazmania or Melbourne.

Good luck in your endeavors!

Tony Zanussi
Kansas City, MO


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Old 04-30-2014, 07:01 AM
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Thanks for the replies. Pottery suppliers never crossed my mind. I will check some out tomorrow.
I should be able to use my frame and cradle again if its gonna get that hot.

cheers


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Old 04-30-2014, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmaduro View Post
You definitely go all out when building a piece of gear! That steel forge body you built is very nice looking and will be great once you source some soft firebrick.

You should be able to locate some locally or at least in Tazmania. If not I am sure there would be some available in Melbourne. I would imagine the post would not be too extreme from Aussie to Taz. You could also Web search for refractory in Tazmania or Melbourne.

Good luck in your endeavors!

Tony Zanussi
Kansas City, MO

Thanks mate!
Here is a better pic of the forge frame. I have some heat proof paint to apply once I am happy with it and finished modding.

Cheers


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Old 05-01-2014, 05:02 AM
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I would imagine the expense of a couple of wasted bottles of mapp gas would more than compensate for the shipping of a few soft firebricks.
Is postage/shipping based on weight or volume Downunder? The bricks have very little weight.


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Old 05-01-2014, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crex View Post
I would imagine the expense of a couple of wasted bottles of mapp gas would more than compensate for the shipping of a few soft firebricks.
Is postage/shipping based on weight or volume Downunder? The bricks have very little weight.
Post service is based on weight. However i found a local pottery supply. 8 bucks each. Pick them up tomorrow. I did manage to use about half a bottle of mapp so far.
Lpg burner forge next...or the 2X72 i started building tonight...or those 4 unfinished knives.


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Old 05-01-2014, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seemus7 View Post
Post service is based on weight. However i found a local pottery supply. 8 bucks each. Pick them up tomorrow. I did manage to use about half a bottle of mapp so far.
Lpg burner forge next...or the 2X72 i started building tonight...or those 4 unfinished knives.
Well great, you're now sure to be up and running! It's always amazing, no matter where somebody is from, and if they have knife making on the brain, that they come up with some way to get set up to accomplish their goals! Just don't tell the wife or girlfriend what you have been dreaming about at night! More pics as you get along!

Tony Z
Kansas City, MO


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Old 05-01-2014, 11:41 PM
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Eli Jensen Eli Jensen is offline
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Ive got that same torch and even with mapp, soft bricks, and satanite it probably won't work. Think in terms of heat output rather than temp. Propane has plenty of temp for what we need. And its much cheaper. So my advise is get a bigger burnerand switch to lp. I the bernzomatic ts8000 and it has a much higher heat output than what you've got. Honestly though it probably would be better to get the burner kit from high temp tools, only a little more expensive
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli Jensen View Post
Ive got that same torch and even with mapp, soft bricks, and satanite it probably won't work. Think in terms of heat output rather than temp. Propane has plenty of temp for what we need. And its much cheaper. So my advise is get a bigger burnerand switch to lp. I the bernzomatic ts8000 and it has a much higher heat output than what you've got. Honestly though it probably would be better to get the burner kit from high temp tools, only a little more expensive
The burner i have is the JT680 jumbo flame torch ?
I thought the Jumbo torch (1 1/2'' flame) would provide enough ''heat output''
I will try it tonight, if unsuccessful il look into the ts8000.
Thanks Eli

Cheers


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Old 05-02-2014, 06:07 AM
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Yep you were correct Eli. It got a lot hotter than before. But still not hot enough to do a 4 inch blade.
Gonna have to order a ts8000 from the states. Ridiculously exxy here.
cheers


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Old 05-02-2014, 07:09 AM
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You might try just using the Mapp torch head on a bottle of Lp. It works despite what the paper work might say. Not sure what model Mapp head I have (definitely an older model than yours), but it works well enough to braze smaller items (step above silver solder) using Lp. With a soft firebrick back wall it gets hot enough to braze threaded rod to short tangs. I have also used it successfully to run my coffee can forge well enough to forge a 4" blade with ease (not working with over 1/4" thick stock though).

All that being said, bumping up to a Freon tank size forge with homemade venture forges will give you way more satisfaction and versatility. The skills you have shown in your post indicate that such a build would be a walk in the park for you. Seems daunting first time around but really very simple and easy to make out of scrap/junk pile materials and a little black pipe work.

If you'll send me your email address via PM I'll send you information on how I build my very simple venturi burner. No electricity needed for blowers and quieter operation than a blown forge.


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Old 05-02-2014, 07:54 AM
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Hey Mate, you could get a burner from the states like what I have. It is pictured in my Dropbox link below. Better close-up pics of the parts needed to make your own 3/4" venturi burner are found in the link from www.HighTempTools.com below.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fnnkzruc8xfptuh/lRjnnXpkiI
http://www.hightemptools.com/burners.html

I highly recommend you just build a burner with pieces you can probably source there. My forge was built from a compressed air canister and easily gets to welding temperature with just the one burner. It is about 12" deep. That burner will easily work with your brick forge set-up. You also probably need their 3/4" stainless steel burner flare if you go this route, if you want it to last. Everything is on their website. They also do international shipments. Great place top do business with. Let me know if you have any questions.

Tony Z
Kansas City, MO


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Old 05-02-2014, 08:28 AM
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Thanks for the replies and help gents. Yes I will build a lpg burner forge.
Will check out both sets of plans/info.
Crex, Seeing as map burns hotter, wouldn't using LP just run cooler .The torch I have is map/propane compatible.

cheers


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