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  #1  
Old 11-02-2016, 10:10 AM
Blake.s Blake.s is offline
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I am new here, just looking for some advice on heat treating.

So I am looking on some advice on heat treating.
So first I wanna ask should I get all my final sanding done on my knives first then heat treat? And after heat treat do final polish and sharpen?

Second is I have seen some stuff on heat treat and they said that before you oil quench that you get it to around what you think is the right temp and test to see if it is magnetic?'

Some of the metals I am using are railroad spikes, lawnmower blades, and some metal from school but I will have to get the metal details for that one.

I am very new to knife making, but I been building furniture and tons of other stuff through out my entire life. I was a welder, a CNC guy, a maintenance person and owned 2 companies before.

I have belt sanders but not the ones dedicated for knife making. But I was just gonna make one.
But I made a jig for files and thats working really well and I been learning alot with that.

So I just need some advice, prefer not to get flammed on my question and thats it thanks for anyone who responds.
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  #2  
Old 11-02-2016, 07:33 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Simply put, if you are heat treating in a forge darken the room and quench at reddish orange to orange and the nonmagnetic temperature is 1413 and you need to get about 60 degrees hotter, so pull the metal out and test it with a magnet once it starts to turn red. If the magnet doesn't stick and it isn't reddish orange pop it back in for a few seconds to minute depending how long it took to get to dull red (time it out). Once ready have 120 degree heated oil ready and quench point/edge down first quickly, don't let it cool down before quench. Then temper at 400 for one hour first as soon as you have wiped the oil off. Let it cool to room temp in the air by shutting off oven and open the door. If you buy some inexpensive 1084 you can have precise HT instructions btw. Test after first temper with a good file, if it doesn't dig in (it shouldn't if decent steel and good heat) and just skips over the blade then temper for another hour.

But using a mix of steels I cannot take you further. Not all mower blades are the same steel sometimes not even from the same company and the same for leaf springs. Leaf springs used to be made with 5160 mostly and that needs to get hotter in the forge a lot, like around 1550-1650 degrees and that is yellowish bright orange, someone please correct me if my memory is incorrect on the 5160. Here is a link to a steel company for blades I suggest 1080 or 1084 to start. Oh 5160 is usually hammered to knife shape, tempered and then finish ground.
http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/

Coal forge or propane?

Last edited by jimmontg; 11-03-2016 at 03:12 PM. Reason: clarification
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  #3  
Old 11-03-2016, 04:44 AM
Blake.s Blake.s is offline
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Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmontg View Post
Simply put, if you are heat treating in a forge darken the room and quench at reddish orange to orange and the nonmagnetic temperature is 1413 and you need to get about 60 degrees hotter, so pull the metal out and test it with a magnet once it starts to turn red. If the magnet doesn't stick and it isn't reddish orange pop it back in for a few seconds to minute depending how long it took to get to dull red (time it out). Once ready have 120 degree heated oil ready and quench point/edge down first quickly, don't let it cool down before quench. Then temper at 400 for one hour first as soon as you have wiped the oil off. If you buy some inexpensive 1080 you can have precise HT instructions btw. Test after first temper with a good file, if it doesn't dig in (it shouldn't if decent steel and good heat) and just skips over the blade then temper for another hour.

But using a mix of steels I cannot take you further. Not all mower blades are the same steel sometimes not even from the same company and the same for leaf springs. Leaf springs used to be made with 5160 mostly and that needs to get hotter in the forge a lot, like around 1550-1650 degrees and that is yellowish bright orange, someone please correct me if my memory is incorrect on the 5160. Here is a link to a steel company for blades I suggest 1080 to start.
http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/

Coal forge or propane?
Ok ty for the help It is a coal forge in a old propane tank. I cut the lid off and put a hole in the side with a pipe that connects to a hair dryer. I had some fire bricks in there just cause I never wanted the tank to melt. But I think what I realized is that since the air is coming from the side it seems to never heat the forge equally. So I may pic it up in the air weld some legs on it cut a hole in the bottom and put a stainless screen there and put a pipe with a 90 degree bend then the hair dryer. It seems to me if the air was coming from the bottom it would heat more equally. If not ill just build another one.

As for the knife I was working on yesterday the metal is just so soft. I honestly have my doubts on heat treating it. It was the first one I made and it was from a piece of old angle iron. So I took one of my mower blade and cut it up into a kiridashi knife, its a lot more simple then the one I been working one. I think the metal may heat treat a lot better to. Was a pain in the ass to cut compared to the other metal I was working with.

Either today or tomorrow I should have some pics of some stuff. I am actually really sick atm, I was cleaning in the basement some of my old working chips and I forgot my respirator. And I had a bunch of exotic wood down there. Well some exotic wood you are not supposed to get in your lungs at all. Well I forgot cause it has been a year and now I am sick as #### lol.

So ty for the response
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  #4  
Old 11-05-2016, 12:57 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Blake, an angle iron is not heat treatable as it doesn't have enough carbon to harden. Don't waste your time on structural steels they are like 1018, now the mower blade will be more like 1060 or 1070 the last two numerals on the steel designation stand for how much carbon. 1018 has a mere 0.18% carbon and doesn't harden. Steels do not start to harden until about .40 as in 4140 chrome moly steel again the 40 on the end stands for 0.40% carbon.

The mower blades should harden up as they typically run about 1060 or higher. 5160 leaf spring steels are as you may guess 0.60% carbon and is considered at the low end of hardenable steels. It is for sale in thick sizes because it is usually hammer forged to size. It is used to forge axes and heavy knives and is used in making Damascus by some. It is a tough steel and can be hardened enough for a knife, but not like 1084 or something.
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2016, 04:35 PM
Blake.s Blake.s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmontg View Post
Blake, an angle iron is not heat treatable as it doesn't have enough carbon to harden. Don't waste your time on structural steels they are like 1018, now the mower blade will be more like 1060 or 1070 the last two numerals on the steel designation stand for how much carbon. 1018 has a mere 0.18% carbon and doesn't harden. Steels do not start to harden until about .40 as in 4140 chrome moly steel again the 40 on the end stands for 0.40% carbon.

The mower blades should harden up as they typically run about 1060 or higher. 5160 leaf spring steels are as you may guess 0.60% carbon and is considered at the low end of hardenable steels. It is for sale in thick sizes because it is usually hammer forged to size. It is used to forge axes and heavy knives and is used in making Damascus by some. It is a tough steel and can be hardened enough for a knife, but not like 1084 or something.
Hey thanks for telling me that I totally forgot about the carbon thing from school. I just been going though hell with the ex so been busy with that. Anyways my buddy from school gave me some
A36 mild HRS
is that worth doing something? I am just gonna make a little shadow dagger from it and try it out and see if it works. A friend wants me to make one for her just to carry at night time for protection coming from a job. And this is a close friend so I said ya sure. She said it dont really have to have a edge just needs to penetrate lol. Thanks for all the knowledge everyone is giving me it means a whole bunch. I been watching more and more stuff on youtube and some walter sorrels videos.

edit: I just read that steel is crap Time to do a redesign or so on something else. Sorry for taking up your guys time

Last edited by Blake.s; 11-09-2016 at 04:38 PM.
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  #6  
Old 11-10-2016, 12:16 AM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Don't be sorry, you have to learn, but using mystery steels will give you some mystery results.lol

If you insist on using odd steels remember if it has been hardened before then it's OK to forge like mower blades, but some leaf springs may not work out as well as some of the newer ones aren't that great. Always take a small piece and heat to orangish red and quench. See how hard it is. Run a file across it, if it skips then temper at 400 for an hour and do what I said before. Buying some 1084 is a better idea though.
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  #7  
Old 11-10-2016, 07:34 AM
Blake.s Blake.s is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmontg View Post
Don't be sorry, you have to learn, but using mystery steels will give you some mystery results.lol

If you insist on using odd steels remember if it has been hardened before then it's OK to forge like mower blades, but some leaf springs may not work out as well as some of the newer ones aren't that great. Always take a small piece and heat to orangish red and quench. See how hard it is. Run a file across it, if it skips then temper at 400 for an hour and do what I said before. Buying some 1084 is a better idea though.
Ya it is time for me to get some of that, it is gonna be awhile since the move and all the other hassle around what happened. Then ill get a better job and start doing a lot more of this
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2016, 03:48 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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A36 hrs isn't hardenable. It has less than .20 carbon in it.
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