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  #16  
Old 10-13-2015, 02:37 PM
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Rutland is castable but not as good quality as Missou which is intended for forges and kilns. You can use the Rutland but you should probably expect it to crack also. Be sure to let it dry before firing.

What's wrong with just putting a full sized (1" thick) brick in the bottom of the forge?


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  #17  
Old 10-14-2015, 06:28 AM
Ed of all trade Ed of all trade is offline
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I would think that if the ground brick was not very smooth that the rough surface would cause cracks in the brick when it heats up. Simular to stress risers. Ed

Last edited by Ed of all trade; 10-14-2015 at 06:30 AM.
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  #18  
Old 10-14-2015, 07:45 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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hey guys i didnt have a chance to check the comp. today but ray to answer your question...when i put the wool and coatings on i did not thinks about the brick i just ran the wool and coatings all the way around including the bottom so now say if i just put a full brick just in there on top it sits up WAY to high, I think i know what your going to say just cut out the bottom to make the brick sit lower right? i figured that is probilly the best solution however i took so much time in piecing that buble alumina back togather ( remember i broke it all up when i fliped the forge upside down and the B.A. fell off) and puting another thin layer on top. i know cutting it out is the best way of doing things but it killing me to cut that out after just puting it in i guess trying to find another solution is just not going to happen and i gota cut it.
ED...good thought i didnt even think about the rough surface being a problem i thought just cause it ended up bein so thin Probilly a lil of both.

Also guys so i dont have a actual anvil i had 2 real old big vices ya know the ones that the attached piece that slides in and out is a big block of steel (opposed to a thin round rod) well one of the vices was a mess so i actuly been using that big square steel piece from the vice with some success. Today i spent a lil time and made myself a pair of decent tongs and they came out ok they dont look prity but they function and that is the important part right? but i think i came to the conclusion that a legit anvil will make things alot easier. i never used a "Traditional style " anvil so i dont know what is the best thing to look for and i am not trying to spend crazy money i dont have it right now. I think the best deal i found is a 55 pound anvil Single horn and a hardy hole for $68.00 what do ya guys think? i do think i need a legit one as it the basic tool but dont know to much about them is 55 pound ok? to small to big? i dont need a huge one just enough to do basic forging and a lil pattern welding. any advice on this would really be appreciated i dont want to spend alot but i REALLY dont want to waste money on something that is not going to help me. Thanks
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  #19  
Old 10-14-2015, 08:17 PM
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As for the forge bottom: cut it

The tongs sound good .

A $68 anvil is pure cast iron, not the best for forging by a huge margin, I'd pass. As a general rule, a forging anvil should weigh about 40 times as much as the largest hammer you plan to use. A standard 2 lb hammer then would require an 80 lb anvil. Anything lighter and the anvil will probably bounce around too much.

Lots of guys make their own anvils. A section of railroad track is a good start if you can find some. Or, most any large piece of solid steel, say a 4x4x6" solid rectangle...larger if you can find it (junk yard, scrap steel). Take that small piece of steel (bigger the better) and mount it in something very solid (usually involves heavy hard wood, cement, and maybe some thick walled pipe). Its not too difficult to come up with 100 lbs or more of solid base with enough steel set into it to function pretty well as an anvil. Also, considering what you paid for that forge don't overlook pawn shops, antique stores, or grandpa's barn as possible sources for actual anvils at potentially affordable prices ...


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  #20  
Old 10-15-2015, 10:07 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Ok thanks ray as far as the forge i know i think i am going to cut it today i just been delaying the inevitable One question say i cut the bottom piece out where the buble alumina is so the brick can fit. What i was thinking if i cut that out ill have a 1 inch piece of wool with satinite and buble alumina on it. No obviously the brick isnt round so there will be a small section under the flat bottom of the brick with nothing there. I was thinking if i take that piece i cut out and peel off most of the wool so it is just a thin layer of satinite and buble alumina (assuming i can do that with out it breaking into a 1000 pieces, maybe leave a very thin part of wool on) should i try an put that piece in that section under the brick and on the side of the brick if i can? Just thinking about protecting the steel shell a lil bit. Is this worth the effort? Or will the steel stand up to any flux by itself?

As far as the anvil situation THANKS exactly what i needed to know i didnt want to waste money on something i cant use. I have tried checking scrap yards. But where i live it has gotten so ridiculous they wont lent you walk around a scrap/junk yard any more like they used to. Everyone is scared some one is going to get hurt and sue the place. Some places will look for a part for you if you tell them what you need wich is fine if i need a bunch of copper wire or something specific but i actually tried at one place asking the guy to find a large solid piece of steel for a anvil. He said nothing he could think of. Basically he didnt want to spend the time looking for something that isnt a exact part. So if i get what your saying....for example if i need to make a 100 pound anvil the base could be made of 80 pounds and the steel on top could be 20? the piece on top doesnt need to be the whole 100 pounds? What about taking a couple of sledge hammer heads turning them on there sides welding together and grinding down the top so it is a even flat surface and then mounting that into a concrete/cement base? Would something like that work or does the top face have to be all one piece not 2 pieces grinded togather to be smooth and level. If it does have to be one piece could i just slap a piece of 1/4 inch steel plate on top of the hammer heads or is that not thick enough? I think i remember seeing one or 2 anvil's out there that the flat top part where most of the work goes on was actually removable but i dont know if it is something that is supposed to be there or something someone added on later and if it is any good or not.
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  #21  
Old 10-15-2015, 10:31 AM
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If you want to put something under the brick then some wool will do, or you could trowel in a blob of that Rutland. If you have some more alumina it could be used to connect the wool to the brick although that isn't necessary.

That's a creative idea about the hammer heads but I don't think I'd try that with conventional welding. You really need one piece of steel and you won't get there with an arc welder or acetylene or TIG or whatever but you could get there with forge welding. Problem is, you would need an anvil to accomplish that task. So, in your case you need to start with one piece I think.

Know any place that has old wheels off a railroad car? Worn out axle off a bulldozer? Any kind of solid steel rod about 3 or 4" in diameter would be a good start....


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  #22  
Old 10-15-2015, 02:50 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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I actually have a brother-in-law that works for the railroad by me. I sent him a text on the phone before when i made the last post asking if he can get his hands on a section or 2 of track wich would be great. But he hasnt answered me yet we'll see. My other brother asked him for something (cant remember exactly what it was it was years ago) but i know he asked for some kinda old train part for his wife that was trying her hands at art sculpting (lets say it didnt work out that well) but my bro-in-law that works at the railroad said they are really crazy about stuff there his reason for not getting what the other bro wanted was that his boss wants every part fixed as much as possible before getting a new one and he said every broken piece gets cataloged and recycled. It all seemed alot of work for something getting thrown out to me but a neighbor who works at a different rail yard said they do the same thing there. It is really crazy how things are getting and have gotten over here in ny just like no junk yard letting you find stuff there anymore. they used to. I think too much government money and they want every lil thing on paper and make sure no one gets sued. Any way enough ranting ill see what works out with my brother but if not would 1 sledge hammer head be big enough probily not right? Oh and ya know the anvil i was talking about before the cheap 68 dollar one its the fact that its cast iron right? its just not to durable i am assuming? the weight i could always bump up by making a base for it but i want to make sure its also the fact of the material not being any good. Oh on your last post ray you said a axial from a bulldozer i get that being a solid rod but what did you mean when you said old wheels from a rail car? The actual wheel wouldnt that be round like a car wheel? of is it just a piece of the wheel i would be looking for? anyway thanks again i am going back to hunting for steel
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  #23  
Old 10-15-2015, 03:00 PM
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Cast iron alone is too soft. Chinese cast iron can be even worse than soft, crumbly.

The train wheel would be round but I was thinking of a section of the axle between the wheels. Remember, all you really need is a 6" section of 4" solid rod. Bigger would be better but that would do so make sure your brother knows you're not asking for an entire 20 ft (or whatever length they are) section of track!


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  #24  
Old 10-15-2015, 04:14 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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haha yeh thats just what i need him pulling up with that much track. Thats actually what i forgot to ask you. i haven't heard back from him yet probilly busy at work but i was also cruisin around ebay just to see whats available in case my brother cant do anything. either way i need to know what to tell him if he says yes how much you think i would need i was going to say get 2 pieces of 12 in long (if he can if not just 1 piece 12 in long or even anything better than nothing) sound good? now for example one i found on ebay a few differnent things one is... ya know what ill just put the links in here instead of all the facts on them. No rush but when ya get a min just check these out and if ya can what would you go with if it was you (if any) and why is there anything that sticks out being better. Any positives or negitives?This way if my brother falls through at least i got some what of a idea of what to look for thanks man i would have wasted that 68 dollars with out your advice thats why i am asking for any kinda + or - on these that way i know what to look for and can be able to make a decent decisions. i assume any rail anvil would have to be mounted in a heavy base like concrete right cause they are not that heavy unless i am looking at the wrong ones or something.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Rail...MAAOSwgQ9VwWbz

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Railroad-tra...gAAOSwsB9WDJZf

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Coal...wAAOSw5VFWHsKO
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  #25  
Old 10-15-2015, 04:40 PM
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Any of those would do fine but I'd pass on the one with the $75 shipping charge just because of the cost. You would need to add mass below the rail as discussed before but these are a great start.

Understand that plenty of guys use anvils that are only 4" square mounted on top of a 5 foot pipe full of cement with 2 ft of it sunk in the ground or any similar design that creates a solid mount. The anvil itself does not need to be all that large (says the guy with the 500 lb anvil) ...


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  #26  
Old 10-15-2015, 08:00 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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ok so the other 2 one is 7 in high by 8in long and the other is 3 3/8 high by 10 in long. both of those are good? i did try and do a lil reading on the subject but there isnt all that much out there from what i saw. I thought i remember some where it saying to stay away from the 3 inch ones. is that true or is it just because of the mass and if you have good base it will be ok? also you mean that some people just use a 4 in square piece of steel on top of pipe in the ground. how thick does that 4 inch piece of steel have to be? here's my situation. I am actually in the process of putting up a large shed in the back to keep al my stuff in (tool, welder, forge,ect) i aint going to just throw stuff in there i am going to turn it into a lil workshop (workbench, table, stand for the forge ect..) lets say i am taking up to much room in the garage that already has a lot of stuff in it. i spent yesterday building a wooded frame for the base of the shed. i basically took 6 in by 6 in hardwood pieces and used that for the outside frame then took 2 by4's and ran supports across just as you would place studs in a wall (just on the ground) Since the 6 by 6's are taller than the 2 by 4 wich are flush on the top there is a 2 inch gap under the 2 by 4 's to the ground (vary's slightly depending on the ground). Also 1/2in plywood covers it all. tomorrow i am going to put the shed ontop of this base. Now if i took one of these rail pieces i assume it wouldn't be good enough to make concrete base for it the diameter of the rail maybe slightly bigger and make it just tall enough to be comfortable swinging maybe 3 feet tall. and just put it on top of the plywood floor? would that work or no? If not what if i cut a hole in the floor and put more 6in by 6in right onto the ground and mount the 3 foot tall concrete piece to that so there wouldnt be that 2 in gap under the 2 by 4. or would i need to do that you said some people do and cut a hole in the floor dig a hole and pour the concrete into the hole in the ground? Obviously i dont want any more unnecessary work but also dont want to have to do it twice cause first wasn't good enough. If i have to pour concrete into the ground maybe ill hold off on putting up walls of the shed until i know definitely what i am getting and do that first. What do ya think would work? I know i got alot of questions on this but i did try and look up some of this on google and bing and was actually surprised how little info i found on how to make a base for these anvils.
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  #27  
Old 10-15-2015, 08:13 PM
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You want the biggest (heaviest, most solid) chunk of steel you can get. Mount that on a very solid base. How you do that depends on what you have to work with.

The words 'solid base' and 'plywood floor' are not usually found in the same sentence. You need to either sink a large pipe into the ground and fill it with cement or build some kind of very heavy solid base above ground (but sitting on the ground or a cement floor. If the floor has any springiness to it it won't matter if you have a 500 lb anvil, it's going to wobble.

Do it the simple way and see if it works: get a section of heavy tree trunk and attach the rail track to it in the most secure way you can find and give it a try. You can always fool with cement later if needed.

Whatever you do, do it outside the shop building. If you try to run a forge in there you'll die from heat prostration before the carbon dioxide has a chance to kill you. The forge needs to be outside - opening the doors and windows won't help enough - and the anvil needs to be near the forge....


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  #28  
Old 10-15-2015, 08:39 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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great tip on the tree trunk i didnt even think of that and that is something i will have no problem getting thats for sure lets say my father loved (past 2 years medical reasons had stoped him) to cut down trees for firewood and he enjoyed it so we always had extra and pieces are still laying around. i guess i could cut a hole in the floor just big enough for a piece of tree trunk so it could sit on the ground instead of the plywood floor. As far as where to place the forge right now i have it on a heavy duty tool cart that i been pulling in and out of the garage. i am going to keep it on the tool cart until i build another rolling stand for it so i can give back dads tool cart. but what i was going to do is make a ramp going in the front door of the shed/lil shop. but instead of having the ramp angle right to the door i was going to make a flat part right outside of the door just big enough for the cart with the forge on it then the ramp coming off that flat part. so the forge would be technically out side but just out side like the cart sits on that flat spot that is right out side the door. then i was going to try and place the anvil inside the shed so what i could do is basically stand in the doorway facing outwards having the forge right there in front of me but be able to turn around 180 degrees and have the anvil right inside within a step from the door so all i gota do is turn around to go from forge to anvil. One of the main reasons for doing it this way is the ease of bringing the forge in and out especially during winter obviously i dont want to leave it outside but i dont want to have to shovel a large area to use the forge if there is snow on the ground. as i said this is the plan in my head things might change slightly if i run into a problem here or there but thats the basic idea.
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  #29  
Old 10-16-2015, 08:29 AM
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Skip the ramp. Buy two - or even one - sheet of plywood and a few 2x4's. Use them to build a car port type roof extension on your shed over the door. Put the forge and the anvil outside and don't point the forge door at the shed door. Now you don't need a cart or a ramp, snow stays away from the shed door, no hole in the floor, and the odds of not dying from monoxide poisoning or burning down the shed are greatly improved ...


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  #30  
Old 10-16-2015, 10:59 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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wouldnt the snow melt or even rain get on the forge and mess it up. i know the coatings dont stand up to good to water i got some on the outside of forge when i put it on and it cam off very easy with a moist rag. i get the carport roof would keep snow from coming straight down but add some wind and.......ok heres one of those examples of my brain taking a break again....just thought throw a tarp over it. is that how you do it?
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