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  #46  
Old 02-05-2013, 12:31 AM
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Jacknola Jacknola is offline
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Webshots confiscated all pictures and supposedly deleted them. I've finally gotten around to recreating the originals on photobucket and repairing the original posts. I also found a couple of old historical pictures I had stashed away in the attic and added them to the magic-Randall. Regards.

Last edited by Jacknola; 02-06-2013 at 12:04 PM.
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  #47  
Old 02-06-2013, 09:25 AM
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Hi Jack!

Good to hear from you again!

Thanks for taking the time to replace all the photos illustrating your classic tale of courage and endurance.

I can understand why mysterious forces would want to cover up all of the facts for security reasons, but perhaps they went too far. Hopefully, this time the truth will not be suppressed.

By the way, do you have plans to take the magic-Randall on any other adventures?
Believe it or not, I hear there's more trouble brewing in several places around the globe...

Cheers!

David


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Last edited by Moosehead; 02-06-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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  #48  
Old 02-06-2013, 11:43 AM
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[Sent from satellite phone] re: currently overseas, contracted by >censored< company, currently in >censored< with French forces, closing in on main >censored< army and their commander, >censored<.

Recent activity in S. >censored< Peninsula where my lads of the >censored< Special Protective Force were able to take down >censored<.

Other recent activities can?t be publically discussed and my pictures were confiscated upon return, though apparently the movie people were able to freely access information about the mission.

Problem with posting information on recent activity is >censored-warned by ####### Agency for potential violation, section 3.1f.u, of Omni-Civilian Orwell Act of 2013, further violations will result in your being >censored<with extreme prejudice<.


[Sent from satellite phone] edit add 3-March-2013: GOT THEM! took them and their unit down yesterday in a fight in >censored< valley.

Last edited by Jacknola; 03-15-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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  #49  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:57 AM
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Another antique Randall in action?

Rather than start a new line for limited objective, I thought I would just add a post to this one.

Researching certain subjects, I found this picture of the Slovenian Special Military Police, from early 1990-91. The subject seems to be wearing an interesting knife. Is this a Randall? My first guess it looks to be early ?50s 2-8, which would be a strange piece of equipment to be carried in the 1990s, (unless it is the magic-Randall of course). If it isn?t a Randall, it surely looks as if someone used one as a model. I wonder if Slovenia has a bunch of these stashed away somewhere?

Note: I lost these two images...not Randall in any case

Last edited by Jacknola; 07-27-2017 at 06:53 PM.
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  #50  
Old 03-17-2013, 06:26 PM
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Hi Jack!

Sorry for the delay in answering, I was hoping someone with more knowledge would chime in before I did.

I don't think that the knife is a Randall.

To my untrained eye the sheath is not a Moore, Heiser or Johnson.

The handle, although difficult to make out in the photo does not "sing" RMK to me either.

Cheers!

David


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  #51  
Old 04-01-2013, 11:08 PM
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Solution to paradox - magic-Randall?

On another site, a discussion of sheaths and ages of Randalls is underway.

http://www.knifetalkforums.com/ubbth...=109301&page=6

Well known Randall personality, Gary Clinton, posted these sheaths from his collection as part of that discussion.



Of interest to the origin of the magic-Randall is the example posted on the far right of the collection. It is also shown in more detail in picture #2 below.



Gary includes this comment about this particular knife:

?#1: Has a name and date etched from Randall 1960. Pinned ebony. Lugged nickel silver hilt and the sheath is indented for it. Quality of the sheath is very good. CK, ST snaps.?

Given the cut-outs in the sheath of Gary's knife, it is probable the sheath is original to the knife. Which means? a pinned ebony handled model-1 Randall was made (or etched) by the shop in 1960, and it was delivered with a brown button sheath that was marked with a vertically oriented Randall stamp. In other words, Gary?s knife could have (haven?t seen the blade) very similar characteristics, handle, blade, spacers, and sheath, as the magic-Randall knife that started this discussion line (see pictures post #1).

I had previously found a picture of a model-1 (leather handle) with a similar brown button- vertically stamped sheath that was documented as being ordered in 1961, delivered in very early 1962. This post by Gary now moves the possible magic-Randall sheath date back in time from '62-'63 to year 1960, and raises the possibility of moving the production date of a pinned ebony handled model-1 knife forward from mid-50s to 1960.

The convergence of possible production dates of sheath and knife could provide a simple solution to the paradox of the magic-Randall, discussed in great length, documented with pictures, in ?the magic-Randall? post in this line.

Oh well? that?s show biz.

By the way? I unfortunately was the under-bidder on a green tenite, model 14, a few months ago. It was sheathed in a Burns-Martin stamped sheath? Burns Martin being a well-known, high quality, holster manufacturer in Calhoun City Mississippi. Is this food for thought about sheath manufacturers for Randalls? I may post those pictures in a new line. Regards, Jack Williams

Last edited by Jacknola; 07-27-2017 at 01:16 PM.
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  #52  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:35 AM
Cthulhu Cthulhu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacknola View Post
Here's a way to display a few knives discretely in study ... visiting 10 year olds won't be tempted to sword fight but can show with lift of lid. It is a silverflatware storage box, remove divider, some tiger stripe lining. These things go for $50-$60 on e-bay and the boxes are very nice looking, about 16x14x8 or so. Or you can put a 45 cal pistol in bottom drawer.







Beautiful collection, brother. I wonder if you could use a cigar box the same way?

One suggestion I might make. Lay the blades out in an alternating pattern, butts facing away from each other? It would keep the guards and handles from bumping each other and scarring each other up.
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  #53  
Old 04-03-2013, 09:54 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Hi Jack,

It's an accepted fact in the Randall community that Randall dealer Jack Crider talked Bo into pinning the handles on some percentage of his orders well into 1960 and possibly beyond. This is the only excption that I know of.

Best,
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  #54  
Old 04-03-2013, 07:02 PM
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Thanks Ron. You had noted that exception previously and I'm gratifide to know the dealer and time period. The thing about Gary's post that I was most intregued with was the retrograde time creep of the earliest age of brown button sheaths with a lengthwise Randall stamp. I have a vague memory of such a sheath from even earlier than 1960.

If I had a picture of Mr. Clinton's blade itself, especially if it varied from the shape of my knife, I could make an interesting mosaic of three ebony handled model 1 knives with brown button sheaths that could span an interesting time period. Perhaps he will post such a picture. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

Regards, Jack Williams

Last edited by Jacknola; 04-03-2013 at 09:17 PM.
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  #55  
Old 04-05-2013, 03:04 PM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Hi Jack,

I think you'd have a good chance to get a photo of that knife from Gary if you asked him and explained the reason why. Here is his contact info from his website:

clinton4@msn.com
(815) 282-1171

As you may have seen, he's tied up this week and next, so hopefully he'll have some time the week of April 15th.

Best,
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  #56  
Old 04-14-2013, 10:09 PM
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Pre-note: I'm not an experienced Randall historian. All the references to age etc. are strictly secondary scholarship acquired from other's publications. Ron's excellent discussions of the progression of blade shapes, pins, etc., were the catalyst for this comparison.

Three ebony handled model 1s, with brown button sheaths. Two of these knives have pinned handles, a feature noted by others to be generally associated with pre-1956-57. Knife #1 is my 1-7 ?magic-Randall.? Knife #2 is a 1-8 from Gary Clinton?s collection, dated by etching to the year 1960. Knife #3 is an ebony-handled 1-7 without a pin. I borrowed photos of this knife from an ad on E-bay. It is very similar to a knife in John Gibson?s collection, but he didn't post a photo of the back of the sheath in his fine on-line album (link below) hence the use of this one.







Knife blades: I contacted Mr. Clinton as suggested by Ron. He has kindly forwarded high res pictures of his knife. The comparison of the blades of #1 and #2 is especially interesting. The longer handle on #1 and the clip shape are the primary visual differences in the blades. The width of the blades of the two knives is different causing the choll on #1 to look shallower, but #1 has been sharpened obviously a great many times. The flats of the two blades may be different, but #1 is so worn that it is hard to tell. The ricossos seem different, with Gary's blade seeming to have a pinch-out immediately above the choll and perhaps a narrower ricosso. Finally the stamp on #1 is further down the blade. #3 has a clearly different choll shape, though the ricosso does not seem notably thicker than the other two.



Sheath front: I?ve tried to carefully insure all the photos are in scale by adjusting so that the size of the buttons are the same. The lighter shade of the buttons on #1 is likely caused partly by the flash, but also probably by its obvious heavy outdoor usage? the sun will fade a brown or tan quickly, even in plastic (note: this is a fact - well known in the art world and in the world of oriental rug dyes, etc. Even car paint fades in sunlight) The lighter color of these buttons may make them appear larger - optical illusion.

Knife #1, a 1-7, is apparently a little shorter in the blade than knife #3 (also a 1-7) and the #1 sheath is even shorter in comparison, probably because of leather shrinkage from repeated exposure to the elements. Of note is the placement of the throat snap on #3. It is much further to the right. The stitching is also not as fine. This is very similar to the construction of the sheath for John Gibson?s knife.



For reference, a picture of John Gibson?s ebony-handled brown-button 1-7. See link to his on-line presentation of his collection; http://www.militaryfightingknives.co...n.html#Randall. (Upon further review, knife #3 in this essay may actually be the knife from Mr. Gibson's collection).



Sheath-back: Of note is the difference in the stamp of the #3 knife. It faces right, whereas the other two stamps are left facing. I?ve checked numerous pictures of brown button sheaths and I found that several/most brown buttons with a right facing logo seem to be of a later date (note caveat at start). The ones with a left facing logo seem to me to be generally of an earlier date. But I don?t know if this orientation of the logo was random, or a change was actually made in the orientation of the stamp at some point. Most pictures of brown button model 1s do not show the back of the sheath thus the sample size is way too small to do more than ask a question.



Back-throat: Close up of back of three sheaths. Of note is the difference in the construction, stitching fine-ness, and the lack of model numbering on #3. Though it looks as if the stamp on #3 is larger, it probably is an optical illusion. I overlaid the other stamps as best as can be done with un-scaled photos, and they seemed to be pretty close in size, as was the stamp taken from a horizontally stamped sheath, turned sideways and overlaid upon the others. So one of my bright ideas, that two stamps of slightly different size were used during this time, cannot be confirmed by picture study.



Handles: Of note is the longer handle of #1? a feature that has been commonly associated with knifes from the mid-late 50s. After Mr. Clinton sent high-res pictures of his knife, the pin appears to be the same size in both pinned knives. I notice the ebony handle of Gary's knife has a crack running through the pin, very similar to the cracked handle of the magic Randall, the repair of which was the original subject of this line.



Conclusion: Many similarities of the two pinned knives and sheaths are noted, though differences exists. I am not experienced enough to form a definite opinion. But, given the longer handle, etc., one could suspect that the magic-Randall may be the oldest of the three blades, but that may be just craftsman overlap. Or, the apparently more narrow ricosso of Gary Clinton?s blade could give the it the nod. His kife is confirmed by dated blade etching to 1960. Knife #3 is presumably from later in the brown button era.

Without the longer, more dropped handle on #1, the similarity of knife and sheath with Gary Clinton's dated knife could lead to a simple solution, that the magic Randall is 1960 vintage, concurrent production with Gary's. Whether the magic-Randall is in its original sheath remains a question however - which was the point of this whole essay. So the explanatory "magic-Randall" story is still valid.

Questions: Was there a general shift in the east-west orientation of the vertical Randall logos in the very early 60s or was stamp orientatlon a random worker variant? Is the assumption of the progression of stamps from Heiser, to horizontal Randall, to vertical Randall correct? What about this knife, posted by Bernie Austin, post linked below?




Regards, Jack Williams

Last edited by Jacknola; 07-27-2017 at 01:19 PM.
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  #57  
Old 04-15-2013, 05:48 PM
Cthulhu Cthulhu is offline
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OHHHHHHH LOL ... you want the smarmy details.. humm, that will have to wait for the long version novel.. I have a few wayward incidents in my past... not all of which I am particularly proud, but... er .... interesting.

The Flashman series is the greatest set of books ever, for pure reading pleasure, and for understanding the 19th C British world, as they are heavily footnoted and historically accurate. I used Frasier's books as the inspiraton for this little story of the magic-Randall ... that and Lord of the Rings, and Kipling, etc. When McD Frasier died last year, we were all looking around saying... "but what about the handshake from General Lee, Gettesburg, getting the MOH from Linclon, etc.?

By the way, in case I havn't mentioned it, I really like this knife... Regards, Jack
One small item, Jack.

Crocs don't have external ears.
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  #58  
Old 04-15-2013, 08:08 PM
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LOL Ahhhh? grasshopper? but what is an ?ear?? Is it the Auditory Canal, the drum, or is it the flap of skin visible on the outside of the head?

Actually, I checked that out before writing it ? apparently the ear flap (which closes when the croc is under water) is the only ?unarmored? part of a croc head, at least from what I could decipher from a quick Google. For what its worth, when open, croc ears are more prominent and easily seen on baby crocs.



Other than a few deliberate mispellings (old veterans don't always get names right when recalling their time), there is one important factual flaw in the story, but it is the type of flaw that can be reasonably explained. The other minor contradictions can be ascribed to memory-fading or just not knowing all the facts - combat tunnel vision. The slicing off of the croc ear isn?t a factual flaw however. Just for reference, the Swahili words for magic-knife, the Luba tribe (Ba-luba - Swahili speakers), geography of Malaya, Vietnam, Africa, etc, references, history, organizations, events, missions, etc., are basically accurate throughout.

And as a side note - re: the picture of Che - the man in the jungle fatigues may be Special Forces SFC Boyles. In 1968, he was posted to the Dak Pek A-242 camp in Vietnam. He came from the 8th SF Group in Panama to take my place because I was being transferred to Ben Het, A-244. He was married to a Chilian, spoke native spanish, and while briefing him, he told me that he was on the mission in Bolivia and some interesting things about that mission. He also made a point to note that there was an unauthorized picture of him and a CIA man taken with Che's body, and implied that was one reason he was transferred. SFC Boyles was KIA'd in Vietnam in about June, 1968.

I hope you enjoyed the story. In a way it is a reference to cold war history, a history that is rapidly being lost from popular memory. And what the heck... that "story" about the knife beats most of the pedestrian efforts of the con-men dealing in fake Randalls does it not?

Regards, Jack Williams


PS: I checked some shoe boxes in the attic and eureka!, I finally found the old picture from the Congo taken by another merc in our unit, allegedly of the croc that attacked me. My Luba boys said that the villagers living down-stream pulled his shot-up carcass out of the river the day after my panic-stricken confrontation and later ate him (Africa rules - eat or be eaten). But personally I've never thought it was the same croc ... this one's ear seems intact.


Last edited by Jacknola; 07-27-2017 at 02:00 PM.
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  #59  
Old 04-17-2013, 11:39 AM
Cthulhu Cthulhu is offline
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I stand corrected. Learn something new every day.

And if one is close enough to slice THOSE off, one is entirely too close.
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  #60  
Old 04-18-2013, 10:30 PM
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Chutu - "And if one is close enough to slice THOSE off, one is entirely too close." Those were some of my exact thoughts at the time ... if you add in a few "oh ####'s!"

I hope this is not boring anyone, but here is another comparisons ? pins in wood handled Randalls, a rare species. Inspired by Ron?s fine essay earlier in this line, I made this composite to look at pin sizes?. #1 on the left is the magic Randall, #5 far right is the handle of Gary Clinton?s 1-8. The knives in the middle, #2, 3, 4, are from Rock Whitaker?s collection posted earlier in this line.



It is difficult to accurately scale these knives, but I?ve tried to approximate by overlaying transparent pictures. I assumed the spacers of #1, #3, and #5, are approximately the same outside diameter next to the hilt, thus would appear the same width in 2-D. I also tried to double check by comparing size of Randall blade stamp of #1 and #3 and #5, and the thickness of the spacer stack (note: #3 knife has an extra red spacer immediately next to the wood handle, 8 spacers total).

If these assumption are correct, then it appears the five pins fall roughly into two different sizes. #1, #3, and #5 seem about the same. Nos 2, and 4 seem smaller. What this means is unknown to me, just some more interesting data at this time. (comparison description edited and changed after receiving high res pictures kindly sent by Mr. Clinton)

by the way, here are a couple of sites that discuss installing pins, wood handles, etc.

http://www.mammothblades.com/index.p...les-The-handle

https://clincoknives.com/Making_the_Handle.html

Last edited by Jacknola; 08-01-2017 at 12:22 PM.
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