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  #1  
Old 09-25-2015, 12:45 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Burner set up? whats Yours?

Hey guys first let me say i got question about burner options but i would also like to know how yours it set up? what you use presently or in the past? how did it work?

I was watching some of rays dvd and it got me thinking about some things. One I want to try and get a better burner. Even the real simple one seemed to work very good but also impressed with the blown burner that was used. So first I was thinking about making a venturi style burner. Specificly the ?side arm burner? from zoellerforge.com. Do you guys think that will be a improvement on the one I have. The one I have came with the forge I got. The guy sells them on ebay heres the link http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-Made-gas...5f1bcf3a4?????. Also I took a pic of it below. Now the second thing I was thinking about is a blown burner. I was thinking about just buying one of these if I can either find one I can hook up to a air compressor or I find a blower real cheap some where. The 2 main blown burners I found is the one on Hightemptools.com (wich I am sure one way or another I could find a way to physically hook up to a air compressor but I don?t know what the requirements would be to make it effective doing it that way) I also found one made by devil forge http://www.ebay.com/itm/DF-AIR-FORCE...item3a8beac104
This one actually says it can be operated on a air compressor. Basically my questions are 1. will the sidearm burner reach welding temp in my forge and be a improvement over what I have?
2. as far as the blown burner option goes first I know these burners should deffinitly meet my heat needs but would it be to big? I know it could heat a forge that is bigger than mine but will I be able to use it in mine with out having to much burner?.i could just keep it on a low or medium flame right and just not turn it all the way up?. Lastly if that is the case what do you think about the 2 forced air burners that I found? Are there any others out there for sale I had a hard time finding them. I know the blown burner might be a lil much for what I need now but honestly I got a few extra bucks in my pocket this week so I would rather collect equipment now when I can rather than needing it down the line and not having the funds for it then. However I still want to be ABLE to use it with good results now even tho it can probilly do more.

pics of forge and burner. the forge is 5 1/2 in in diameter (inside of the wool and coatings) and 10 in. long


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  #2  
Old 09-25-2015, 02:44 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Getting set up to make knives is an expensive proposition. I can think of lots of things you should be spending your money on before I would buy a $135 burner from Lithuania!

Really, you need to watch that video more carefully. I built a venturi burner and a medium sized forced air burner and a forge body for less than the cost of that Lithuanian burner. The video shows a mini-forge built with a small battery powered forced air burner and it shows my monster forge with two large forced air burners. The point is, you can build the burners any size you need them to be and there's nothing complex about them - just pipes. Hardware store stuff.

The blowers can be found all kinds of places or you can build your own as shown in the video. For that $135 you can buy the best forge blower on the market, like mine, as shown in the video.

A compressor can be used but its a very poor choice as an air supply - far too much pressure with requires regulation.

To answer one of your questions: any of those burners will be better than the one you have. What you have isn't what I would call a forge burner, it's more of a torch like a Bernz-O-Matic. My favorite forge burners won't even run outside of a forge body, the body is part of the burner (as demonstrated in the video).

Tilt your forge body over about 30 degrees and you might be able to get a burner to enter the body a proper angle if you leave the set screws loose and stuff the hole with wool ...


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Old 09-25-2015, 03:16 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Ray, thanks yeh i am going to finish the video tonight, by the way awesome critters you got there. I had to show my father he would of loved to live way out there in a cabin like yours he thought it was great but even here he loves feeding the birds and squirrels but has never had them come right up on his lap he couldn't believe it it was good. Ok anyway i was thinking about that burner for a couple reasons it has a hook up for a air compressor and the one i have meets the requirements that is listed on the site. So that would be all i need.....however i was thinking about all this this morning (when i realised i had some extra $$ this week) thinking more i think i am going to do a lil more research and thinking about the forced air before i buy something i am unhappy with. I am going to take a stab at making a venturi and if it dont work out well. order the kit either from hightemp or zoeller sites but deffinitly wanna try and make one from scratch. how ever i still want a forced air also i would like to have both but i am just going to put that on the back burner for a lil bit (so if any one else reading this post and have info on forced air please share) but i just got a lil excited and thought about it and if just pull the trigger to soon i think i will be kicking my self in the ass. At the very least finish watching video and sit on the idea for a week
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:39 AM
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DanCom DanCom is offline
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My Forge

Decided to go with a more Michael Porter / Ron Reil hybrid. Cooks stuff in a hurry.








Last edited by DanCom; 09-26-2015 at 01:43 AM.
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:19 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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nice dancom makes me want 2 burners.....So i went to the store today to get some parts for the burner. the reducer that goes on the top is suposed to be 1 1/2 to 3/4 they didnt have that so i got one that was 1 1/4 to 3/4 do you think that is ok. i also got one that is 1 1/2 to 1 1/4 so if i put them togather it should work right? oh by the way i am going by the ron reil design ( https://www.abana.org/ronreil/burner.gif ) i was going to try and do the side burner but couldnt find the right tee. Now my other problem is when i went to look for a #60 or 58 57 this store the bits were all in fractions so i asked a guy for help and he pulled up some conversion chart on his phone and he gave me a 5/64 bit well i looked up the chart when i got home and 5/64 is closed to 47 or 48 so i assuming i have to return this. this would be way to big right?. i was thinking i have some welding tips that i had from this same store a while ago i have a 0.035 0.030 and a 0.025 but they are not like the tweeco ones that are kinda pointed these are very blunt (pic below) should i try one of these tips wich one the 0.035 .030 or .025? or i could try the bit that i think is to big? any opinions? i am kinda stuck



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Old 09-26-2015, 09:37 PM
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DanCom DanCom is offline
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I am not an expert in these things like Ray. But, my understanding is 1-1/4" to 3/4" adapter is fine. If you insert a nipple to lock the cross tube (modified Reil version) you lose some flow so the 1-1/2" is preferred in that design.

I think a 5/64" (0.078") is too large of a hole for the orifice, my guess is you want something half that size or smaller. I made mine with 0.035" Lincoln MIG contact tips and they look like your tip in the pictures. The wire that passes through the hole is 0.035" and the hole is actually a little bit larger (or the wire would drag). You can see by the first photo I posted that that I'm running a bit on the rich side and a 0.025" MIG tip would probably be fine.

To use a contact tip in the Reil design you'd have to drill and tap the cross tube to accept the contact tip and ensure it's nice and square to the cross tube, so the gas is jetting directly down into the pipe. Drilling the right size hole is easier. Does anyone locally sell Dremel bits? They make small ones and a 1/32" should be common.

The setup I used looks like this:





Dan

Last edited by DanCom; 09-26-2015 at 09:39 PM. Reason: Duplicate image
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Old 09-27-2015, 08:04 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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If you're going to go to the trouble and expense of building that type of burner then why mess it up by using the wrong sized hole? Get the correct sized drill from MSC. If you're going to make knives you need to be familiar with a good tool supplier and these guys are the best mscdirect.com They have every drill, ream, or tap in every size ever made .......


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Old 09-27-2015, 09:38 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Thanks Dancom good info thanks for the pics. i like pics helps alot. also Ray thank you to i check out that web site they got TONS of stuff again thanks for that. Yeh go figure i have literly THOUSANDS of drill bits and of corse not the one i need well actuly i might i dont have many that are that small but i do have a couple the problem is i can read what the actual size is on them so i would be guessing wich i dont want to do. Any way tomorow (after i get a chance to run to the bank) i am going to order the exact bit i need. i think i might get a few (around that size range) from that site ray talked about. I got a extra one of those cross tubes (the one you drill the hole in) in case i mess it up so i think i am going to save one for the bits i am ordering but the other i am going to try and do something with today. so my options are either get a bit to drill hole or use a welding tip. Looking at the home depot site to see what they have at the stores close to me. I found a couple things first they had dremmel drill bits that the closest ones are either 1/32 in. or 3/64 in. I posted the conversion chart below so you can see one is a lil to big and other a lil to small. Or i could use the welding tips i have 0.025 , 0.030 , 0.035. looking at the chart the .025 and 0.030 are also to small the 0.035 is also to small but is the closest of all the options and if what dancom said is true (and i think it is it makes sense) that the tip is a lil bit bigger that the 0.035 then it should be priity close what do you guys think? take a look at the chart below....It is easier to read the chart if you just click the link here

http://www.thedirtforum.com/conversions.htm


69 ... .0292
68 ... .0310
1/32 .0312
67 ... .0320
66 ... .0330
65 ... .0350
64 ... .0360
63 ... .0370
62 ... .0380
61 ... .0390
60 ... .0400
59 ... .0410
58 ... .0420
57 ... .0430
56 ... .0465
3/64 .0469
55 ... .0520
54 ... .0550
53 ... .0595
1/16 .0625
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Old 09-29-2015, 08:33 PM
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Naboyle Naboyle is offline
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If you use the welding tips you can change the size anytime you want too. If it doesn't run right with the small tip or the big tip or the middle tip, just change it till your burner runs right. If you would of just bought parts for a blown burner you could of been forging steel by now instead of worrying about drill bits and mig tip sizes!!! I copied Ed Caffrey's forge and burner design and it's absolutely amazing. Easily maxes out my pyrometer at 2500 deg, not that it ever needs to be that hot.
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Old 09-29-2015, 10:30 PM
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BCROB BCROB is offline
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Keep it simple with forges, a rule of thumb by many well respected in knife making, the more you add on the harder it will be to get it to run properly, going forced air for about $40 would solve your issue with the size your using, no need for 2 burners in your current setup....


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