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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 02-19-2007, 04:00 PM
LABlade LABlade is offline
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First knife/First heat treat

As a rank newbie, I practiced hollow grinding on 5 or 6 blades and decided the last one was adequate for finishing. The others are in the scrap bin! It's 1080 steel 3/16" X 1 1/2. Obviously, it's not to the level of most of the guys who post some impressive knives, so rather than embarrass myself by sending it out for heat treating I welded up a mini forge and did it myself. First one! The blade is 3 1/4 inches with a 4 inch tang. I had a hard time getting the complete blade non-magnetic. The thinner edge became non-magnetic pretty quickly, but the spine took 3 or 4 minutes longer, and a small area just above the ricasso was still slightly magnetic. With that in mind, is there a chance I got the edge too hot while trying to get the spine non-magnetic? Of course I never did get the tang non-magnetic in such a small forge. Another question - I'm using the Bernzo Matic JTH7 burner nozzle and placed it between 1/2 and 2/3 back from the forge opening based on what I've read here. The flame swirls in a whirlwind really nicely but I can only get the intense heat in the back 2/3 of the forge. That's why I had problems getting the blade hot enough back towards the tang. Should I reposition my nozzle more towards the center of the mini forge? I tested the blade with a file after I had cleaned the scale off and it won't bite anywhere along the length of the blade but will bite pretty much everywhere along the tang. The blade is in the oven at 400 degrees as I type this. Hope it turns out. It took me about 6 hours to grind it! I've got another that's nearly done (and looks much better) and it took about 3 hours, so I'm hoping it gets faster with practice. Thanks for the wealth of knowledge from all of you!

Les


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Last edited by LABlade; 02-19-2007 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 02-19-2007, 05:51 PM
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NJStricker NJStricker is offline
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I guess my first question is, did you insulate your forge? That will help hold heat in, and unless your volume in the forge is very small, should be able to heat the entire blade.

The tang doesn't need to be hardened, and it's probably better that it's not. Did you do a full quench or differential quench?
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Old 02-19-2007, 06:20 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is online now
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Yes, there is some chance the edge was over heated but it probably isn't going to be a deal breaker in this case. Test the edge and see if it chips (too hard) or stays bent (too soft) by doing the brass rod test (Search if you don't have the details on that test).

The forge volume would need to be small, open only on one end, smallest opening possible, and the forge should be insulated. If all that is done, the whole blade should get to non-magnetic but as Armory414 already said, you don't really want the tang hard anyway ...


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Old 02-19-2007, 08:46 PM
LABlade LABlade is offline
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Armory 414, the forge is insulated with 1" wool coated with 2 coats of Satanite, then 2 coats of ITC-100. I didn't put a door on the forge and was experiementing with fire bricks placed in the front. For some reason I was thinking I needed a larger opening because there is no opening in the back of the forge. It appears I'll need to put an insulated door on it. Not a problem. I made the forge out of 6" pipe X 10" long. I put 2 inches of wool in the back so I have less than 8 inches overall length to work with. I cut some 1/4 inch plate and welded it in the back of the pipe. For the nozzle I welded a 3/4 inch X 3 inch pipe between 1/2 and 2/3 towards the back of the forge and the nozzle/flame just clears the insulation at the top, and has a slight downward slant into the forge. I full quenched this blade.

Ray, I forgot about the brass rod test. Information overload with reading all this information the last 2 or 3 months! I'll do that. Thanks.


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Last edited by LABlade; 02-19-2007 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 02-20-2007, 02:39 PM
LABlade LABlade is offline
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I'm really pumped! I finished 3 cycles in the oven yesterday afternoon then had to hurry off to work. When I got home from work this morning I couldn't wait to do the brass rod test. I cleaned the blade up a bit and thinned the edge to where it was ready for sharpening, then did the brass rod test. I could see the blade flex as I moved along and then just roll back into perfect shape. There was no bending, breaking or chipping along the entire edge, even at the tip where I expected it would bend or break. I read somewhere on here to use about 35 foot lbs. of torque and I easily exceeded that on the 3rd and 4th pass to really test it. How lucky is that on my first try??? After that I decided to sharpen it and give it a real test. I sharpened it to where it would shave hair off my arm then took a piece of 2X2 and chopped it in half and it still would shave hair after that. Then pounded the edge into the brass rod to see if it would chip. It made small indentations at the impact points but never broke. I touched it up and rain the edge really hard through some elk hide with the hair still on it. I've got a Randall I've used for years for skinning dear and elk and have to use the steel on it after running it through a hide like this, but this blade still shaved hair after the hide/hair cutting. Three or four months ago I never would have believed I could get that type of performance from a blade I treated with a simple little forge and some peanut oil! I realize there was likely a lot of luck involved and that in the future I'll ruin my share of blades figuring this out but for now I'm on cloud nine. This forum is a tremendous resource. I don't post much but study it a lot and appreciate everyone's generosity.


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Old 02-20-2007, 02:56 PM
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Les,

You NEED to post a pic now, you can't keep us in suspense like that.
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:47 PM
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Now you know why people buy handmade knives and why we say that the heat treat is where the blade's performance comes from. If you don't do your own heat treating you aren't making the most important part of the knife!

Three months ago you couldn't spell knyfemakur and now you am one ....


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Old 02-20-2007, 09:37 PM
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Mungo Park Mungo Park is offline
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Sounds like you are on the right track. It may be your forge is too big for your burner. The edge could be too thin for heat treating the best I have hred id about as thick as a dime. You want to remove enought steel to get rid of the outter surface after quenching, to get down to the good stuff. You could always build a burner for it. Sounds like it all worked out in the end anyways. Other than that rock on get a handle on and show us a photo.
Cheers Ron.
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  #9  
Old 03-02-2007, 03:40 PM
LABlade LABlade is offline
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Don't laugh, this is my first knife after 2 kit knives. My hollow grinding needs lots of improvement. I had a heckuva time with the plunge cuts particularly. I also need much improvement on my finishing and polishing. A mirror finish wasn't in order for this knife because it will get hard use, but I decided to experiment with a mirror finish for practice. The fit on the scales turned out really nice. There is one small gap on the bolster just in front of the forward finger notch that I'm not happy with but have analyzed and come up with a better plan for future knives. On a whim, I decided to try my hand at a sheath. I picked up some scrap pieces from Tandy and the bare essential tools, got on these forums and studied Mr. Micley's and Chuck Burrow's tutorials and got 'er done (sort of). It convinced me I will get some DVD's and books before I try another one. You might be able to see some scuff marks acros the face of each bolster. That's where I bounced the knife along the cement floor when I was fitting the sheath. Another lesson learned among many on this project. Overall I had a ball doing this.







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Old 03-02-2007, 04:29 PM
LABlade LABlade is offline
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I'm also learning how to post pictures for the first time. I think these are a little bigger.




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Old 03-02-2007, 04:43 PM
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Gotta say that's a good looking knife for a first! I have been hanging around here since 03 and have seen a lot of firsts, this looks more like a 4th or 5th. Nice sheath as well, is it also your first?
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  #12  
Old 03-02-2007, 05:02 PM
LABlade LABlade is offline
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Not only my first knife, but first heat treating and sheath. I had to make this project tough by putting a mini forge together and heat treated the blade. Another first. It turned out great, the best edge holding knife I've got. I chopped a couple of 2X2's in halft and it still shaved hair. Still in disbelief, I later tried a 2X4 but had to strop it on a leather wheel a bit before it would shave again, but no damage to the edge. I couldn't believe I could do this and had to put the edge through some real torture for my own satifaction. When I got the bolsters and scales on I couldn't stand it and decided to put a sheath together. With the forum tutorials and some scrap pieces of leather I put this ugly sheath together just to see if I could. I've learned a lot, primarily that I've got a lot to learn!


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Old 03-02-2007, 06:22 PM
T-Wolf T-Wolf is offline
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Man,don/t it feel good when a plan comes together!You did a good job there,amigo.give yourself a great big ATTABOY!


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Old 03-02-2007, 08:12 PM
EdgarFigaro EdgarFigaro is offline
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Looks quite nice, whole thing came out good. Can't wait to see the next few.


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Old 03-02-2007, 09:59 PM
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Very nice work.That first knife is special,isn't it


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