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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 08-08-2011, 09:45 AM
jacob95 jacob95 is offline
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File Stock Removal

Hey guys, I just recently bought Wayne Goddards $50 Knife Shop. I'm going to be building a stock removal knife. All I have as far as power tools is a bench grinder, some angle grinders, and a palm sander. How should I go about doing this?? The reason I'm asking is some of the stuff in the book makes no sense to me.
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  #2  
Old 08-08-2011, 09:55 AM
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Eli Jensen Eli Jensen is offline
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Does anything you have resemble this?

http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/Hom...f55e7844_4.jpg
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  #3  
Old 08-08-2011, 09:56 AM
jacob95 jacob95 is offline
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Yea. I have an old one of those.
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  #4  
Old 08-08-2011, 09:58 AM
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Eli Jensen Eli Jensen is offline
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Thats what I use. Many knife makers swear against them. The motor is pretty weak, the belt dimensions suck, akward and klunky. Well, yes its all those things. But knife making is also about making things work. It's what I use and I've got it down pretty well. I'll get some pics together and put them up in a few minutes of my setup.
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  #5  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:21 AM
jacob95 jacob95 is offline
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Alright thanks.
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  #6  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:33 AM
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Eli Jensen Eli Jensen is offline
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Ok so here is a short, to-be hidden tang finnish design I will show on my Ryobi 4x36 bench top sander. My 36 grit and 120 grit belts are ceramic belts from supergrit.com. Great store. I recently have tried a 2x36 50 grit ceramic from them and it works about the same but 1/2 the price, but a little trickier on the tracking. My 220, 400, and 800 belts are black S.C. also from supergrit.com.

I use an angle grinder to cut this, but a hacksaw works fine too.
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Ok so here's the set up. Ideally this should be stationary, but space does not permit that. The top should be as close to perfectly flat as possible. It isn't as important that it is level that it is consistently level or un-level. If the level of the stand changes, so does the angle of your grind. I draw the grind lines on the blade just to visualize, so I dont do something dumb like grind the wrong side or whatever. But unlike freehand grinding, these lines are more or less meaningless because the angle on the jig will determine where the grind lines are.

So you want the stand or whatever you concoct to be the same everytime, clamps in the same spot, stand in the same spot on the table, etc.

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Next, since the universe is unkind and nothing about this stand is 100% consistent, I adjust the angle on the sander with a square to make sure it's as close to 90 as possible. Take the belt off when doing this.

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You can use this to square your spine, etc

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I added a scribe guide to my stand to draw the center line. Not 100% needed, but very very useful. The tip was $8 at HomeDepot.

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I usually never get the line 100% center, but its more or less a reference point, so as long as I recognize and remember which way it is offset.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/...l/CIMG1967.jpg


I designed my jig after a youtube video CJSKnives put together. Can't tell you who's is better but mine works for me. My first one, and a cheaper option is to use a piece of 2x4 and cut the angle on one side. In the long run, wood jigs suck cause they warp and swell. Mine also are not adjustable.


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It is simply an aluminum square piece with some aluminum and brass strips glued on the bottom to create the angle. Then I lightly sand the bottom to create a flat on the bottom. I would suggest using wood or something soft, cause the metal on the metal surface gets marred up and continued use is cutting a small trench.

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Ok so here is one pass. A long, slow pass, usually angled sideways to hit the corner of the belt.

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Here is the finish rough grind. Change belt to 120.

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Here it is after 220.

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Now I will take it off and do the other side. Then I have another jig with a steeper angle for the false edge on the spine. The blade is then to be hardened. Leave about 1/32" on the edge before HT. Then after you can put them back on the jig, starting with 120 or 220 to grind the scale off and refine your edge, or I suppose you could go straight to hand sanding. At any rate, I hand sand to 320+ after the scale is grinded off. The finish from just the belts isn't always perfect using this method and leaves something to be wanted. I also surface grind the scale off the flats either before grinding the bevel or after, but ALWAYS before a false edge. The more flat = more work, (I move the sander to the original, flat config) but it also means it stays flatter. If you wait until there is just a little flat near the spine, especially if you sand it perpendicular to the belt, it can catch and become not so flat. Sanding longwise vertical to the belt is easiest, but not always what I do. Also be careful, cause if yours is like mine, the sanding plate is not 100% flat either.
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  #7  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:50 AM
jacob95 jacob95 is offline
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On my belt sander it doesn't angle up like yours. It just stays flat. Ok. I have to maybe stupid questions. What are scales and what is a false edge??
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  #8  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:51 AM
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Eli Jensen Eli Jensen is offline
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Oh also a quick tip. When I turn mine off, I like to stop the belt with my left hand. I don't know why, I'm impatient. Well when I got married this last June I learned REALLY fast thats a bad idea. So if your married, or wear rings . . . . I sewed over the band on some old hanes.

Photobucket

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Also good just for general tool time, cause stuff happens, digits get sanded/grinded/cut/etc. Skin grows back, gold doesn't.
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  #9  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:55 AM
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Eli Jensen Eli Jensen is offline
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When you heat up steel, like to harden it, the surface oxidizes and gets ugly gray and other colors. So you work it annealed, harden it, and then there is scale that must be removed. A false edge is just an edge that isn't sharp, because the angle is too obtuse and/or because it's been intentionally dulled.

http://www.davidmanise.com/img/gear/convex-ka-bar.jpg

Heres a good source for terms
http://www.jayfisher.com/Knife_Anato...efinitions.htm
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  #10  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:56 AM
jacob95 jacob95 is offline
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Alright.
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  #11  
Old 08-08-2011, 11:00 AM
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Eli Jensen Eli Jensen is offline
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Do you have a picture of your old sander? Do you have an angle grinder?

EDIT: I see that you do. It might be too fast of removal, but I made my first knife using an angle grinder and fiber discs. I saw someone once made a jig for an angle grinder to make a flat grind. Otherwise it will more likely than not be a convex grind.

Last edited by Eli Jensen; 08-08-2011 at 11:02 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-08-2011, 11:00 AM
jacob95 jacob95 is offline
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Also what steel do you recommend using?? Ill be building myself a hunting knife that will get used a lot.
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  #13  
Old 08-08-2011, 11:06 AM
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Eli Jensen Eli Jensen is offline
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I may not be the guy to go to on this one. My knowledge of steels is very limited compared to others here.

I always thought D2 made a good hunting knife. Almost stainless which is good if your roughing it, but still holds an edge.

Read this:
http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml
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  #14  
Old 08-08-2011, 11:31 AM
jacob95 jacob95 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt-Jens View Post
Do you have a picture of your old sander? Do you have an angle grinder?

EDIT: I see that you do. It might be too fast of removal, but I made my first knife using an angle grinder and fiber discs. I saw someone once made a jig for an angle grinder to make a flat grind. Otherwise it will more likely than not be a convex grind.
Ill get a pic of my sander.
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  #15  
Old 08-08-2011, 11:31 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Glad you're able to post now Jacob. As for steel, it will depend on whether or not you plan to do the heat treatment yourself, which I'm guessing you're not really ready for yet. If you do the heat treat then 1084 or 1075 or 1065 would be about the easiest steel you could use. If you want to send the blade out for treatment, then 440C stainless is the way to go. Texas Knifemakers will heat treat your 440C blade for $5.

Since you are still trying to decide how to use the tools you have, my suggestion would be to start with a kit blade. Buy a blade you like and add a handle to it. Doing that will help you learn how to use your tools and set them up, how to find the materials you need, while guaranteeing that when you're done you will have a useable knife ...


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