Example of English Scroll for "working" guns

[Marcus Hunt]

Hi all,

Here are a couple of photos of English medium/large scroll I recently completed on a refinished boxlock double rifle. This is an example of very ordinary traditional scrollwork, nothing fancy, turned out very quickly in a commercial fashion for a 'working gun'. The type of scrollwork is exactly the same as you'd see on English guns and rifles for over a century. It's not a work of art but it is quite pretty and it's an illustration of the fundimentals of scroll construction. For all those starting out in engraving, if you understand this all your other types of scrollwork will evolve naturally.

[ksnyder]

Marcus,
thanks for the photos, I like the more open larger scrolls.
btw, is the rifle .416 cal. or larger?
Kent

[Marcus Hunt]

hi Kent, its a .500 rifle.

[Ray Cover Jr]

Marcus,

That's nice clean work in both design and excecution.

I love your borders on that.

Ray

[ron p. nott]

hi marcus .. thanks for posting the photos .. great work .. but that looks more like american scroll to me and not english i see english scroll as a tight closed leaf scroll .. ron

[JMW]

Very nice Marcus. Will the action be blue or case hardened?

[biggles]

Hi Marcus

That looks superb. About what finish is the action? I can't really tell from the photo but it looks like a statin finish of about 400 grit?

I do have a question for you. There has been a lot of talk on other threads about US laws and licences etc. Have the current laws in England effected you and other engravers much? and do you need special licences to hold guns and parts for engraving?

Best regards
Andrew Biggs

[Montejano]

Friend Marcus
I like his engraving's design and the volute is very nice. It's possible that she seem more American than Englishwoman, but that does not have room for doubt, the fact is that the volute is very beautiful.

A greeting and thanks to show.
Montejano
-----------------------

Amigo Marcus
Me gusta el dise?o de su grabado y la voluta es muy bonita . Es posible que parezca m?s americana que inglesa , pero lo que no cabe duda , es que la voluta es muy bella .

Un saludo y gracias por mostrar.
Montejano

[Don Cowles]

A translation of Antonio's post:

Amigo Marcus
Me gusta el dise?o de su grabado y la voluta es muy bonita . Es posible que parezca m?s americana que inglesa , pero lo que no cabe duda , es que la voluta es muy bella .

Un saludo y gracias por mostrar.
Montejano


Friend Marcus-

I like the design of your engraving, and the scroll is very pretty. It is possible that it could be more American than English, but what is certain is that the scroll is very beautiful.

Regards and thanks for showing it-

Montejano

[6T7L71CPE]

What ever it is, it's nice and elegant. Do you have any more pics, close ups? Thanks

[Tim Adlam]

Marcus,

This is the style of English scroll that I prefer.
It's open and flowing with nice contrast and balance.
With the traditionally tight rose and scroll Ron's talking about...I feel claustrophobic!
I've done a minimal amount of that tight-style of scroll, and am working at getting on better terms with it.

I'm looking at the border design off the water table on that Rigby, and I'm guessing that it takes 5 cuts
[not counting shade cuts or clean up] to do...am I close?
It's a nice effect Marcus.

Tim

[Marcus Hunt]

Ok...here we go.....I hope this isn't going to turn into a debate/argument of what constitutes American or English scrollwork.

English Small Scroll (the tiny tight stuff) started off like this scroll. It was a much smaller version of this and the background was cut away. No microscopes in those days (I'm talking 1880's-90's period). But like most things it gets slightly altered over time and the basic 2 cuts took the place of cutting away. Now, provided the small scroll is kept 'small' and say every so often you use just one cut instead of two; make sure every head is shaded and some of the inside work, not all, and what you get is some of the most beautiful scrollwork in the world. BUT, if you cut it too large or keep all the inside cutting regular or fail to fine shade or try and cut it using hammer and chissel then you end up with the 'escargot' look which is bland and unexiting. Fine rose and scroll is organic and provided it's cut well (and unfortunately there aren't many of us who can do it properly any more) to my eyes is the ultimate!

The type of large/medium scroll above has been executed in England and Europe since probably before the USA was born! Remember, EUROPEAN engravers took their skills to the USA not the other way around and it was from this that AMERICAN scroll was born. And the kind of American scroll I think you guys are talking about was introduced to the US by an Australian!!!! Namely, Lynton McKenzie. In the 60's he worked for Purdey's and used to come over regularly to see my father when I was a kid. Then later in the 60's he emigrated to America. McKenzie's scroll was clean and regular, great workmanship but my one critisism is that it never changed. You can pick up any gun done by him and not have to look for a signature coz it all looks exactly the same! And I think you'll find that this is when the fine American scroll was truly born (I'm not talking of the junk stuff on the old Fox's and Lefever's which was basically a bastardised European scroll, or other great versions of European scroll eg Young and Nimschke)

[bigaustin]

I am still wondering how they cut the "comma"in one cut with their hammer and chisel.

[lgrif]

Marcus,

I like the design very much and thank you for taking the time to post the pictures and explanation. When I first started engaving I thought the small english scroll was boring and redundant. As I've gained more experience and mileage I've changed my thinking completely. I still don't care for it as 100% coverage but when used with interesting negative space or as an accent it can be stunning. I've also learned that it is not as easy to cut as I once thought. I would enjoy seeing what you consider well cut small scroll and how it's cut.

Lee

[paintor]

Dittos to what L. Griffiths said.