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  #1  
Old 07-21-2014, 07:12 PM
MTDuke MTDuke is offline
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Small Shop

Hello all, as promised in a couple of posts I am posting some pics of my small shop in progress.

I am interested in hearing from folks ideas about what I should be thinking about as I work to finish it. Things you would have done different, or you did that worked. This is the space I have and its not growing any time soon. I will post some pics so you know where I am at now.

First, the main shop is actually a prefab shed albeit large for a shed at 14x24. I have just finished wiring 9 20 amp outlets on 4 circuits (3 dedicated) and 5 240 (3 dedicated). In addition there is one 240 30 amp and one 240 50 amp heading outside to the lean to I am finishing for the air compressor and dust collection system.







The new lean to in the left will house the compressor and dust collection as mentioned. The rest of the space is for the lawn mower and the like. I did pour a pad for the equipment and both machines will be closed in.



The right side will be for the smithy and as much hot work as I can move out there. I am planning a coal forge and some number of gas forges depending on how many variations of ideas from Rays DVD I end up trying. I have plans for a side draft chimney and a fair idea of how I want to weld up the coal forge. To be honest I would rather be doing this kind of thing than building/wiring but I must get some room! This area will be closed in completely but will have opposing sliding barn type doors that open most of the long side.



Both the center and smithy area will have plenty of light, like sunburn levels. Inside will be insulated and sheathed with plywood painted white. The area around the grinder will have hardy backing for fire protection. The floor inside will be horse trailer mats over the existing plywood. Outside the floor will be gravel. Humm, what else?

I think thats it. So, given my limitations, what should I do different or in addition? What have I not thought of?

Since I am posting pics, I am starting to acquire tools slowly (thus the need to get shop done).

6x36 grinder. I know its not the MOST useful grinder and will not be #1 but free is good. I just had to clean it up and weld a stand.



Crazy huge wheel grinder (is that what you call it?). I know I posted this before, but I found a second finer grinding wheel for it for $5 and some good motors. I may just have to use it for something anyway, again it was free so there ya go.



Mini mill. Looking forward to messing around with this. Was made by a gunsmith here in town and he used it until retirement. 300$. Not sure if its a great deal but if it works better than new prices I have seen.



I have tried buying an oxy/acet setup for the last 5 years at nearly every auction I have attended. #### if I dont get outbid each time. Found this one recently for $110 by random happenstance. Has good hoses/gauges and pile of Victor hardware.



Just this afternoon found this post vice for $100. A week ago I was ready to drive across Montana for one, glad I didn't.



(cont)
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:12 AM
MTDuke MTDuke is offline
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cont...

These followed me home this weekend. Local place had a tool trade in day, traded 2 defunct drills and got 150$ off. They must have a huge margin on this stuff!



OK, I will wrap this up. Got given these two propane tanks from a friend and am starting some forge builds. HighTempTools order just in today so I can start work again on them. These are the small tanks, like 2.5 gallon and should work perfect. Also, my farrier gave me 45 used rasps to mess around with. I know its not knife steel per se, but I will beat them into something.






Thanks ahead of time for your shop ideas. I know from experience that going backwards once finished is much harder than doing it to begin with.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:15 AM
MTDuke MTDuke is offline
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oh, forgot this.....

Champion No. 40 found at a garage sale last weekend. Works great, just needs cleaned up.

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Old 07-22-2014, 10:55 AM
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Hunter10139 Hunter10139 is offline
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Wow looks like you are going to have a really nice setup. I'm just working off a semi homemade bench outside . I can tell you that that 6x36 grinder should be alright for grinding knives though. It'll just take practice like everything else.


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  #5  
Old 07-22-2014, 11:56 AM
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NorCal Nate NorCal Nate is offline
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Well your pwr looks good! 100amp cutler hammer BR panel is a good choice and much better than other brands.. I think that you have a plenty big enough space especially with the smithy outside. Congrats!
~Nate

Last edited by NorCal Nate; 07-22-2014 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:04 PM
MTDuke MTDuke is offline
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Thank you both for your comments. I am excited to get this finished. I have specific question:

What uses are there for compressed air in a knife shop? I will be plumbing air over to the smithy side for an air hammer, but it seems I should drop air access inside the center area as well. I have not read much about air tools being used in knife making, so other than the "what ifs?" I'm not sure how/what it will be used for.

Its kinda like excess outlets, just seems right to plumb it for future use. Wade.
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:51 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Not a lot of use in a regular knife shop and maybe even less for you because you seem to want to forge your blades which means you won't be using stainless. When stainless is a possibility compressed air can sometimes be used as part of the quenching process.

Other than that, those who attempt to do their own stabilizing need a compressor to provide the pressure and, usually, the vacuum for the process .

I'm not sure what kind of air hammer you're referring to. Any air hammer I know of uses far higher air pressure than any ordinary compressor can provide, for that reason the better air hammers incorporate their own compressors. If you meant one of those hydraulic/air hybrids like Austin built then that would certainly need a compressor.

Compressors are also used with sand blasting cabinets. I use mine quite a bit for that ....


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 07-22-2014 at 03:54 PM.
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  #8  
Old 07-22-2014, 04:40 PM
Hempish Hempish is offline
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Montana is full of treasure just have to keep an eye out for them. I live over here in miles city and keep an eye on the auctions around here and haven't got anything yet but plenty of good stuff to be had. The shol looks great though.
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  #9  
Old 07-22-2014, 04:54 PM
MTDuke MTDuke is offline
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Forgot about a blast cabinet, for sure a use for air inside. I'm looking at the Big Blu 155 hammer and will have the air to run it.

Also, although I certainly want to forge I will be working with stainless as well. You imply they are mutually exclusive? Thanks.


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Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
Not a lot of use in a regular knife shop and maybe even less for you because you seem to want to forge your blades which means you won't be using stainless. When stainless is a possibility compressed air can sometimes be used as part of the quenching process.

Other than that, those who attempt to do their own stabilizing need a compressor to provide the pressure and, usually, the vacuum for the process .

I'm not sure what kind of air hammer you're referring to. Any air hammer I know of uses far higher air pressure than any ordinary compressor can provide, for that reason the better air hammers incorporate their own compressors. If you meant one of those hydraulic/air hybrids like Austin built then that would certainly need a compressor.

Compressors are also used with sand blasting cabinets. I use mine quite a bit for that ....
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Old 07-22-2014, 04:57 PM
MTDuke MTDuke is offline
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It is pretty interesting what people have locked away in dark shops around here. I have found much bigger equipment than I could ever use from guys that worked on the railroads, or mines. Lots of treasures for sure, just wish I had an acre of shop. Keep meaning to get over to the bucking horse sale at least once in Miles City!


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Originally Posted by Hempish View Post
Montana is full of treasure just have to keep an eye out for them. I live over here in miles city and keep an eye on the auctions around here and haven't got anything yet but plenty of good stuff to be had. The shol looks great though.
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  #11  
Old 07-22-2014, 05:08 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Cool! I didn't know they made an air hammer that could use a compressor that small. That compressor is huge compared to what most of us would need but still small for the air hammers I had seen previously.

No, forging your blades doesn't preclude you from using stainless. But, although stainless can be forged under tightly controlled conditions you're not really going to be able to meet those conditions and there really isn't any reason to try. The act of forging isn't going to help the stainless and it can't be heat treated properly without an electric furnace so there isn't much point. So, you can forge your carbon blades but if you want to do stainless and get the correct results you'll probably need to do stock removal and have an electric furnace available ...


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Old 07-22-2014, 06:01 PM
MTDuke MTDuke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
So, you can forge your carbon blades but if you want to do stainless and get the correct results you'll probably need to do stock removal and have an electric furnace available ...
Exactly my plan. I have permission for a big blu hammer and the hydronic press made by Ron Claiborne. Will probably be next summer before I can go get them..... It's a fer piece of driving from Montana!

I'm very lucky that my wife is interested in artistic forging, and she will be good at it. She comes from a family of artists. So, tho I don't have carte blanch I do get to setup the shop as well as possible.
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:07 AM
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Fulmaduro Fulmaduro is offline
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If you can afford a big compressor and have the space then you will be glad you got it. A blast cabinet is nice, and you will use that compressor more than you think and also for other non-knife projects.

That 6 X 36 will be great for sanding down stabilized and other wood, G10, micarta blocks. great for scales also. Any time you need to make something flat! I have a 4x36 and couldn't live without it. And free is hard to beat.

That mill for $300 sounds great for guard and collar slots for hidden tangs. A good vice for it does cost some $$$.

That post vice is great for the smithy. I see you pic shows a workbench outside along the wall where your smithy will be. I will suggest you throw a big bench vice there also, always needed when forging. Many times you will need 2 vices while forging, sometimes wish you had more.

Looks like you have the wiring down. Makes me definitely jealous! I have to use a homemade extension cord to run a 220 arc welder from the kitchen (stove) out the window to the back patio.

Great shop, enjoy the build!

Tony Z
Kansas City, MO


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Old 07-23-2014, 09:22 AM
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SVanderkolff SVanderkolff is offline
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Couple of things that I didn't see mentioned above. Lighting, however much you think you need , you will even more and the ability to high light certain work areas. Also fire extinguishers, never needed them but having 2 or three placed in strategic spots around the shop sure makes me feel happier. As for the air, use it to blow the chips away from your work surface at the drill press or the mill.
Hope that helps
Steve


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Old 07-23-2014, 09:44 AM
MTDuke MTDuke is offline
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Tony, good points all. I am looking at the largest Ingersol-Rand compressor that does not need 3 phase. Its a chunk of funds, but I have been underpowered on a compressor before and its worthless unless it will do the job. I have a 60 gal 5 horse in my garage and a portable one that I use for building projects. Neither of course will do the job.

I do have a large machinists vice, might be too large for this mill but will see. Also a large bench vice I need to mount yet when I get things setup. You can see on that leg vice that the guy had two mounted to that stand but sold the other one. So, if the geometry makes sense I might mount the bench vice just the other side on that same stand. I was guessing this grinder would be primarily used for handle material based on some reading, glad to hear this reinforced.

Wiring, I am hoping this is enough! That was the easy job though, I have to trench from my power back to the shop this weekend. We live on the river bed of the Yelllowstone River and its pretty much strait rock and not easy to get through.

I hope it cools off.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmaduro View Post
If you can afford a big compressor and have the space then you will be glad you got it. A blast cabinet is nice, and you will use that compressor more than you think and also for other non-knife projects.

That 6 X 36 will be great for sanding down stabilized and other wood, G10, micarta blocks. great for scales also. Any time you need to make something flat! I have a 4x36 and couldn't live without it. And free is hard to beat.

That mill for $300 sounds great for guard and collar slots for hidden tangs. A good vice for it does cost some $$$.

That post vice is great for the smithy. I see you pic shows a workbench outside along the wall where your smithy will be. I will suggest you throw a big bench vice there also, always needed when forging. Many times you will need 2 vices while forging, sometimes wish you had more.

Looks like you have the wiring down. Makes me definitely jealous! I have to use a homemade extension cord to run a 220 arc welder from the kitchen (stove) out the window to the back patio.

Great shop, enjoy the build!

Tony Z
Kansas City, MO
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