Options for Cutting Framelocks???

[Sean O'Hare]

Okay guys I need some options for cutting the lock in a framelock. I have had it with the ways that I have tried so far.

Although I can eventually get the lock cut I am spending far too long and wasting far too many slotting blades getting this done. I am using 0.100" titanium for my framelocks.

The two main materials that I use are:

1. Small diamond wheels with a dremel mandrel in my mini-mill. This works well until the screw that you use to tighten the wheel shears off. Then it's on to another mandrel and eventually the same problem.

2. HSS Slotting blades - 3"x0.020" (1/2" arbor hole) these work fine for linerlocks but wear out long before a framelock is done. Today I used three to get one lock cut, using the mill at its slowest speed possible and keeping them cool. I just can't afford to spend $40 on slotting blades for one framelock!!!

My mill is one of those tiny Taig benchtop mills. I can't afford a better mill so this is the only option for me.

Anyone use something else with better results?

If I could find carbide slotting wheels with 1/2" arbor hole I'd be set but haven't been able to find them so far.

Thanks for any help you can give.

Sean

[balibalistic]

Have you thaught about waterjet?? would be much cheaper and you could have your entire liners cut to spec.

[Ed Schempp]

After milling the relief at the end of the lock I use a 1 inch dremel abrasive wheel to cut the lock free. I use a .090 straight edge clamped in place for a guide. It take two to three wheels and about 10 minutes...Take Care...Ed

[10es&]

Sean,
I use a mini-mill as well (Sherline) one method to cut the lock that works for me is using a Dremel mandrel with Dremel?s No.409 cut off wheels and placing the material in a vise, lining up the cut by eye.
It took me two wheels for my last lock each wheel cost about .10 cents for a total cost of .20 cents for the lock. The material I was cutting was .040? TI.

Here is a link to the wheels mentioned above.
http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-409-36P.../dp/B00004UDGX

[Sean O'Hare]

Thanks for the replies. I have used the dremel wheels but I find that the screw that is used to secure them to the mandrel has a tendency to shear off leaving half of it stuck inside the mandrel. Is that how your madrels secure the wheel or do you have something else?

Ed - What thickness of titanium are you cutting?

I think given the number of liners I would have to get done at one time that waterjet cutting would get too expensive. Definitely the fastest way to go though.

Sean

[Sean O'Hare]

Okay I might have found a solution. Dremel makes a new mandrel and cutting wheel system called the EZ Lock System. There is no screw on the madrel, the wheels snap on. They have a carbide wheel specifically for cutting steel. So I am going to give these a try, will let you know how it goes.

Sean

[Ray Rogers]

Sounds like you may have a solution already but I'll offer mine.

You aren't getting anywhere near the life out of your saws that I do. My liners are normally .062 and I cut many of them with a saw on my mill before I have to replace the saw. Once in a while I'll make a frame lock and the ti is never less than .125 . For these, I use a fresh saw blade but one is enough to do the job and then it's still good for my regular liners after that.

There are a couple of reasons why my saws last.

One, I run the saw at about 1,000 rpms.

Two, a mister is used to constantly cool the titanium as well as the saw blade. Ti will give up it's heat to anything that touches it far more easily than most other materials so it tends to heat a saw blade in a hurry.

Three, I use 1.25" cobalt saw blades, .020 thickness, with 80 teeth and a 1/2" arbor. Cobalt cutting tools (not carbide) such as saws and drills last much better that HSS when cuttin ti. These saws come from MSC for about $13

[Don Robinson]

I've made hundreds of linerlocks and framelocks using a standard Dremel arbor and the #409 cutoff wheels in my mill running at top speed. It takes 2 wheels for the average.

Never ever had a screw shear off. You're doing something wrong, maybe crowding the cut too much.

Try moving the vise by hand lightly against the wheel. That way you can feel the pressure applied.

[David Broadwell]

Sean,

I use 1/32" HSS slit saws in an arbor. I've also used a 1/16" saw on a couple of large folders. The arbor goes into a 1/2" collet on my bench top mill. I've used this on several frame locks, as well as liner locks, without much trouble. My frame locks are made from 1/8" 6-4 titanium, and liners range from .050" to .080" in thickness. Yes, the slit saws get dull, so I re-sharpen them on my belt grinder - place the tool rest in position and free hand grind the teeth. Works fine. As I recall, the cutters were not nearly $40 each.

If you wear out a slit saw before you get through a single frame's two cuts, something else is wrong. You could be running it too fast - just because you're running at the machine's slowest speed doesn't mean it is slow enough. You could be too aggressive with your feed rate or depth of cut. Your machine may not be stable enough.

I have used my Foredom rotary tool and Dremel abrasive cut off wheels to free hand cut the locks in thinner liners, but never a frame lock. The slits made this way don't look good. It's fine when the slits are covered by a handle scale, but not for a frame lock where the slit is exposed.

Carbide may not be the best for you. Solid carbide is fragile and needs a lot of rigidity. Are the carbide wheels you're looking at really steel wheels with carbide particles bonded to the edge? I'm not sure how well they would work, but I suspect they aren't particularly heavy duty. Dremel tools tend to be light duty, and most are made for the hobbyist.

Your little Taig mill may not be up to it. Those little mills are fun and cute, but they aren't meant for much more than fine delicate work. I know you said you can't afford a better mill, but a better mill may be what you need if you're going to make frame lock folders. Trying to use a machine that isn't up to the task will cause great frustration and probably ruin the machine.

Water jet or laser cutting would certainly work, but these are generally meant for production work. If you are making a series of folders that are all alike it's an efficient way to get the parts roughed out, but if you're are making one of a kind folders it's not.

Attached are pictures of a frame lock folder I made using the thin slit saw and my bench mill. The handles are 1/8" 6al4v titanium. I ran the saw below 300 RPMs with a depth of cut probably around .030". I used either Cool Tool or WD-40 (I've used both with the same results) as a cutting fluid.

Good luck,

David

[Don Robinson]

With all respect to my good friends David and Ray , I suggest you try my method of moving your vise by hand using a Dremel cutoff disk mounted in your mill spindle. It works just fine, leaves a good clean, straight crisp line, and costs nearly nothing.

Learn to feel it cutting.

I stopped using cutoff saws years ago, and still have several new ones left over. I'll take any offer over $400.00 each for them.

By the way, as of today, I've made it for 75 years. Happy birthday to me!

[Ray Rogers]

Happy Birthday, Don! 75 years is a considerable accomplishment. I just turned 60 a couple months back but for some reason 75 seems just around the corner already .....

[David Broadwell]

Happy birthday, Don. You and Ray make me feel so young at 55!

David

[Don Robinson]

Thanks, friends.

Looking back (and I try not to do that) 55 or 60 seems like just last week.

[Bear_Blade]

Sean, I am a relativly new knife maker, especially when compared to some of the seasoned veterans on this site, the folders that I have made use 6AL4V titanium form .062 up to .100 . I use a simple meathod to make my cuts. I have a benchtop drill press, with a cross-slide vice mounted to the work table, my cuts are made useing a dremel mandrel (1/8") with a dremel fiber reinforced metal cutting disk. I feed the disk into my frames until I am through, then turn the feed handle on the cross slide vice slowly by hand until the cut is finished. I can usually do two complete handles on one wheel. I can't afford the fancy mills yet, but I am very happy with the fine cut, and percision that I have been able to acheive.

[CWKnifeman]

Don, Happy Birthday to you. May you have many more!
Curtis Wilson