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The Folding Knife (& Switchblade) Forum The materials, techniques and the designing of folding knives. |
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#1
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Old Timer
I realize that the "Old Timer" is a commercial brand knife, and I've never owned one until a few days ago. I was in an antique shop and found one hanging on the wall, price was right so I picked it up.
What surprised me is that it's the same type of locking/release mechanism as the Michael Walker design (or so it seems), yet this knife is seemingly quite old. Can anyone explain the difference??? Also, I posted this on the "Historical" forum the other day. A friend gave me this old folder. No markings, scales may be horn, 11" overall, lockback design. |
#2
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They say that there is nothing new under the sun. A lot of the "new" locks that we see are actually old locking systems that the patent has run out on, or never had a patent and,or were not marketed effectively back in the day. Quite a few "modern" locks have been traced back to the original designs. Scan us a pic of that Old Timer. Maybe we can get a date on when it was made, or at least identify the pattern. Since Scarade went out of business the interest in them has had a resurgence. Too little too late. The company has been split up. Some of it went to the the old building that Scharade use to be in and will be making high end semi-customs. The other part went to a company that will farm the patterns out to Asia (read China), so it might get a little confusing.
__________________ "Many are chosen, but few are Pict" "The doer alone, learneth" NT Neo-Devo |
#3
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Interesting Roc. I'll get a couple of shots and post them, thanks.
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#4
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I believe Michael Walker patented the name "liner lock" but nthat's about it Frank
__________________ Without collectors there would not be makers. |
#5
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Here's a scan Roc, not very detailed, so I don't know if it'll do you much good. In studying the lock, I find that on the Old Timer it's not the actual "liner" that locks, the liners appear to be brass. There is a seperate leaf of metal, which also appears to be brass, that engages the rear of the blade, exactly the same way as the Walker style. Maybe this knife isn't that old, but to me it looks like it's at least from the 70's. Could have just seen a hard life. That's interesting that Mr. Walker apparently studied an idea like this, then changed the actual locking finger to one of the liners. I though the entire idea was his, not just the "name". I'm certianly not saying that he doesn't deserve all the credit, I just surprised to see an Old Timer with a very simular locking mechanism. If you need better photos let me know, and I can probably take a shot of the lock if you want.
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#6
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That particular type of bar lock has been around quite awhile on what was called an "electrician's knife", with the locking screwdriver. I have an Uncle Henry from the '70's looks just like your knife but with that marvy "Stagalon" handle material.
Walker modified that locking mechanism to include a detente ball and the stop bar, if I remember correctly, and thus significantly improved it. I think I'm missing one more design change which thus rendered his design a big improvement. Hopefulloy someone can add to this. Last edited by fitzo; 04-27-2005 at 09:37 AM. |
#7
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This has no detent ball, in fact I'm not sure what keeps it closed, friction probably. The blade is marked "Schrade USA 1250T". Does anyone overhaul these things? In the open position the blade only has about 1.5" of slop. Other than that, seems to be a nice knife. Best thing to do I guess is to pitch it in a drawer that contains related odds and ends.
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#8
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It appears in the photo to have a typical slipjoint back bar.Perhaps the bar puts enough tension on the blade when closed to hold it shut,just like a typical slipjoint?
__________________ N'T McAhron Sqwaukin Vulture Verrinder "to create is to make art" TREMBLING EARTH KNIFE WORKS Last edited by McAhron; 04-28-2005 at 10:38 AM. Reason: back bar not lock bar |
#9
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The brass extra liner that locks the blade in the open position has been around for over a hundred years.
The French Laguiole (sp) folders have had them at least since I was born, which is a long time ago. They were slipjoints with the extra liner on one side. The back spring is supposed to hold the blade closed. Looks like your back spring is broken, Robert. That's not unusual with these old slipjoints. The back spring is under a lot of pressure when the blade is opened or closed. It has to bend, unlike a lock back spring that pivots. Since it's made of high carbon steel, the older and rustier it gets, the harder it gets, so sometimes they break. In fact, I made folders with the same design before I ever heard of a linerlock. As Fitzo says, Walker added the detent ball and patented the name. A friend of mine brought me an old??? Case folder with the same design, except the liner was made of stainless steel. No detent. I suspect his Case knife was made within the last 15 years. |
#10
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Case Sodbusters use that lock design.The combination of a strong slipjoint and a liner lock make for a very strong lock up.
__________________ "Many are chosen, but few are Pict" "The doer alone, learneth" NT Neo-Devo |
#11
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Appreciate it guys!
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#12
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Forgot to add, that pattern is a Folding Hunter. Some put in the class of what is referred to as a folding bowie. The bowie classification is deemed because it is a single blade clip point knife. Folding hunters traditionaly have two blades. One a clip point, the other, a boner, spey or slim skinner blade. excpt for this model below which seems to make me out a fool.
Does your knife say 1250T ????? Schrades lifetime Gar-on-tee is null and void. Any knives sent during the break-up have been lost with locations unknown. Imperial has parts, but will charge for repairs. __________________ "Many are chosen, but few are Pict" "The doer alone, learneth" NT Neo-Devo Last edited by hammerdownnow; 04-27-2005 at 08:15 PM. |
#13
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Nice picture Roc. Yes, mine has 1250T stamped on the blade. That's the only writing on the entire knife except of course for "Old Timer", Schrade (also on blade), and the work "Press" on the locking detent bar.
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#14
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Robert, there's another significant difference between the older locks (like yours) and the Walker-locks. I recently bought a salesman's box (yep, the whole box, including 10 knives) of Parker/Frost/Schrade folders marked 1978 on the tang. Several of them have the brass locks like the Old Timer, and I noticed that the blades are not centered in the frame, because the lock takes up another layer inside the frame. And yes, they have stout backsprings which keep the blades closed.
BTW the ones I just bought were "limited editons" in 1978, and are easily the equal, or better, in quality to todays production knives. All except one have carbon steel blades, and are reeeeeally sharp My favorite is a red jigged bone single blade with the brass "liner lock". I wouldn't throw the Old Timer in a drawer -- beat it til it drops !! Great old knives I think ! Mike __________________ Trying to become the kind of man my dog thinks I am http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft...E4E363B}&tio=0 |
#15
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I would like to have a 1250T in jigged bone. Here is a pic of mine in Derlin.
__________________ "Many are chosen, but few are Pict" "The doer alone, learneth" NT Neo-Devo |
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