How do you do your designs?

[biggles]

Hi everyone.

Seeing as we have all vented our spleen?s on a previous thread I thought I may change the subject.

I was wondering how you all go about designing your engravings and the process you go through. Obviously you have the object in front of you and a brief from the client/customer/friend and a price has been set (unless it?s one of those labours of love!!)

So what do you do next? And how do you go about it? Do you put all the shade lines in the drawings? Or keep the design clean and add them later?

As an example I trace round the shape to fill, enlarge it on the computer to as big as it can fit on an A4 piece of plain paper, then start drawing. Once I?m reasonably satisfied with what I?ve done I then trace it onto tracing paper with ink. Then I trace again making more adjustments till I?m happy with it. (I might do this 3-4 times). Then it?s back to the computer, scan it, vectorise the artwork and scale it back down, transfer it then cut it. I have a tendency to keep the shade lines out of the design stage so it doesn?t get confusing with the main cuts (I?m not sure if that?s a good idea or not)

I thought it maybe interesting to see exactly what everyone does, with maybe some pictures of developing artwork from old projects.

Best regards
Andrew Biggs

[Andy S]

Andrew,
That sounds amazingly close to how I do it. I never did the ink part though. Or the vectorizing. Is there some advantage to it. I assume maybe the vector artwork scales and prints better? I've gone so far as to retrace at 8x size and darkly at that. Then scale it all back down. It generally comes out pretty well using the transfer solution technique. I would be curious as to what program you use to vectorize and what benefits it offers.

[Joe Mason]

I do about the same process, but I make a photo of the bolster and print it. Then I have a small light box and trace it on plain sheet of paper. Do the design, scan it, reduce it and do the transfer thing.

Joe

[Andy S]

I used to do it like that Joe. Only I would just scan the knife right on the scanner. It won't account for the bow in the shape of the bolster though. Your design usually ends up slightly shy. Now I will smear a light coat of ink on the knife and then lift the ink with a transparent tape. Just stick that tape down to a white sheet of paper and you will have a great representation of the item that will scan well.

This one was done using a light coat of fingerprint ink. This method flattens out the shape real well.

[biggles]

Hi Andy

I do the tracing in ink useing a .25 Rotoring pen which is extremly fine. The reason I do that is because it takes away all the smudges, finger marks and layout lines from the pencil drawings. It basically gives me a crisper image to scan as well. I then put it through Photoshop and rub out any minor mistakes.

To vectorize it I use the signwriting software I have called Signlab 7.1 which is brilliant. I've also used Corel Trace (which comes with Corel Draw) that actually does a pretty good job of it as well. I do this probably out of habit because we do it everyday at work, but it also means that when you scale up or down your image dosn't go all pixelated. With vectorizing you can scale it down to any size without any distortion at all. It prints beautifully. It only takes a couple of minutes to do with either programme.

I'll scan a couple of pictures when I get home from work to show you.

I really like the fingerprint and tape method idea for rounded shapes.

Cheers
Andrew Biggs

[Barry Lee Hands]

For 90% of my work I draw the main scroll lines with an Itoya .1 mm fine point, and cut it.
Sometimes I scribe the borders, but on a good knife I can see the edges well enough to eyeball the borders, espescially if they are gold, because I will cut them with a flat. The leaves I might draw if its an unusually complicated design, but usually I just cut them without layout.
If there is a figure I scribe it onto a plate with etching ground, then etch it just a little, rub some ink into it, and lift that with clear packing tape, and burnish it onto the spot I want it. The advantage of this method is that I can see the substrate metal through the tape, so I can position it perfectly. Then I lift the tape and the ink is left, then I scribe it so I dont rub it off accidently, and then use the bulino tool to cut it. Bob Swartley taught me this technique.
For me it is better to get good at drawing than to use a lot of tricks to layout, because you become a better artist(which means a better layout), and it is a lot quicker.
the layout in the pic was drawn on in 15 min or so with a felt pen.

[Barry Lee Hands]

hehe,After reading my post I realize I did not make it clear that I meant draw it on the bolster, not on paper. Barry

[biggles]

Hi Andy

Here's the pictures of my next practice plate. Left is original pencil. Middle is tracing paper with black ink drawing. Right is the vector art. Obviously there were a few adjustments in between. Those hair lines stay the same thickness no matter how big or small you blow it up. The original pencil drawing was 240mm high x 85mm and the final vector was downsized to 85mm x 30mm

Barry. That is an amazing way of doing it. I'm still scratching with a pencil trying to get it right, but freehand straight onto the work with or without a full layout is incredible. I wonder how many other people do that. Did you do it that way with the Sharps rifle you have on the FEGA forum? Also could you outline a bit better or show what you mean by that etching method please. It sounds very interesting.

Cheers
Andrew Biggs

[Barry Lee Hands]

yes Andy, the Sharps was done that way.
Your drawing for the plate is excellent.
I will post some more on etching a little later when I have some time.
On very rare occasions I have drawn things out to full detail on blueprint type drawings for gun work. I charge clients a large sum to do this, if they require it. Some guns I use almost no layout at all, I will post one of these when I can.
What you are doing is a great thing to do to as a learning aid. When I was being trained I did exersises like these. And even now if I wanted to learn a new style, I would draw it on paper a lot. But I would probably still draw it by hand on the work. I have only transfered reductions a few times.
What is really fun for me is to engrave something, pull a smoke print, scan as a neg, and then print it out large and examine it, hehe, I can really see what needs improvement . Barry

[pilkguns]

I agree with Barry about the layout, I always draw it on the surface to be engraved. If the customer wants something on paper, he or she will have to pay for that time, because it IS NOT part of the engraving process.

the best way to get the feel of laying out scroll that flows on the piece as if it was growing there, is to do it on the piece itself not some sterile piece of paper, or worse, a computer screen. You can't get the feel for the flow of the knife, the handle material, the shape of your engraving perimeter and the contour of the piece without being on the piece itself.

For your as beginners and novice engravers, you will want to draw it out, but like Barry, as you get some experience under your belt, you can cut the majority of the pattern without any drawing at all, the drawing is done by the chips coming out of the metal. Its a neat feeling too.

[KERRY BOGAN]

Great topic Andrew & everyone, thanks. Scott you're right sometimes I get tired of cutting transfers and it is neat to see what you can "draw" with your chisel.

[D'Angelo]

I myself always draw my design right on the piece to be engraved. Coming from a firearms background working for a company, time was always a factor and one could not waist his or her time drawing out a detailed design on paper. That is artwork in its self, on rare occasions if it was a real detailed complex job and the customer was willing to pay ,then of course I would provide the artwork. Most of the time the material to be cut either has a finish that is mirror brite or satin finish, then I just press clay to the area to dull it up and draw with a pencil, if you make mistakes then you can easily erase it with a dabb of clay. The only draw back about this method is its duribility, as it has none, one little swip of a finger and the design is gone!!

[John B.]

Andrew, another great post, thank you. It produces a lot of valuable information.
You sure have the ability to start some some interesting posts that get creative juices flowing.
You really add to the educational value of this fine resource.
Congratulations. Keep up the research and fine work.

John Barraclough.

[Jim Small]

Great thread….Andrew. Allot of good informations here.

I have used all the methods mentioned. I am one of those engravers who does the drawings right on the object to be engraved. I started out doing it this way and it seems to work for me. In the engraving below…I used blue magic marker (blue dykem) to give me a good background to draw on. Then I lightly scribe the main lay out of the scroll and then fill in the blanks. On the piece below... I only drew half of the design and engrave it. I then take a piece of tape and transfer it to the opposite side…then engrave it. This works well with English style engraving where the areas are tight and very little background is removed. Of course, for me and I am sure for you...square flat surfaces are an engravers delight.
Jim