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High-Performance Blades Sharing ideas for getting the most out of our steel. |
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#16
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I went to the Buck knife site like you suggested and found this information. It appears that 420hc is in fact better in corrosion resistance and tougher than ATS-34 but ATS-34 holds a better edge. I guess we won't need to straighten out the Buck knife people as they already know.:
http://www.buckknives.com/technical_steel.php ATS-34 - A proprietary product of Hitachi Steel Company, ATS-34 is a very high carbon stainless steel with the addition of Molybdenum. Because ATS-34 provides better edge retention than standard cutlery (stainless) steels, it is a good choice for blades that require heavier cutting applications. Very good edge holding ability High initial sharpness Rockwell Rc 60-61 Good toughness when double tempered Fair corrosion resistance Less expensive than BG-42 and S30V Carbon Silicon Chromium Molybdenum 1.05 .35 13.50 - 14.00 4.0 420HC - A higher carbon version of the standard Type 420 martensitic stainless steel. The carbon content combined with the high Chromium content provides for good abrasion resistance and edge holding. This steel is not to be confused with standard 420 stainless steel. 420HC is an excellent general-purpose knife (stainless) steel when heat-treated with our proprietary heat-treat process from Paul Bos. Good edge holding ability Very good initial sharpness Resharpens well Rockwell Rc 58 Good toughness Very good corrosion resistance Fine-blankable Excellent standard knife steel Carbon Vanadium Silicon Chromium Molybdenum .44 - 1.00 max 12.00 - 14.00 - |
#17
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ats34 or 420hc
I noticed a couple of things that stand out to me about the differences here. 1st I think most people (myself included)thought of 420 not 420hc,2nd like Buck says also the heat treat can make or break any steel, I am sure if Paul Bose is doing the HT that the 420HC would be a good choice. That said, Iam like Ed, I just prefer to use and work CS. I even like the patina that comes from peelin potatoes!!! Just my 2cts. Mike Sader
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#18
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Alas, the question was "which is the superior steel" and it has gone from there. It is ATS 34 for sure.
Inane prattle from there...... |
#19
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jl_reb, I hope you learned something from this thread - something other than how funny it is to watch an old-timer flip his wig when his favorite ox is gored.
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#20
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#21
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the question was....
"Could somebody give me the scoop on their goods and bads and which is a superior steel." sounds like they wanted to hear the pros and cons...which is what is being discussed in this thread. superiority depends on the task at hand and the persons own preferences, maybe now the person has a better idea of each steels strong points and can make an informed decision based on them instead of just basing it on others preferences. |
#22
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The sad part of this thread is that the poster hasn't been back on KN in 5 days and hasn't seen most of this. Last edited by fitzo; 12-27-2005 at 05:13 PM. |
#23
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:d |
#24
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http://bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368828 is a pretty good analysis of steel for anyone still out there....
Sorry I was unable to make it a link for you |
#25
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Good link. It's not clear if Joe wrote that or he was just posting it. Do you know? He's done a good job with it from what I can tell after a quick glance. I'll have to take some time to read it all in detail.
Just to be even more clear on this thread, and anal enough to give it some closure, I too prefer ATS-34 over 420 or 420hc. I favor edge retention and will give up a little in other areas for it. I gave up on ATS-34 a few years back and went to 154CM which as most know is basically the same forumlation as ATS-34 with some minor differences. If Crucible can ever settle in to produce CPM154CM and price it at least near 154CM, I'll switch to that over 154CM as it is much cleaner in appearance than 154CM. |
#26
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thanks for the link davel
joe has a knack for good articles...i used to have a link of a few he posted but i seem to have lost it...heres one on sharpening he did http://groups.google.com/group/rec.k...xy=2003&rnum=1 |
#27
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Comparing the two, ATS34 and 420HC, I strongly prefer ATS, but let it be known I don't use ATS except on rare occasion and it is not my steel at all. I have never read that 420HC is better than ATS on corrosion resistance but defer to others who say it is so. Howver, I have never, ever heard one word against ATS regarding corrosion problems. Actually, my ox would have been gored more on a couple of different steels. But, this has been a great thread and maybe we have learned some things. A tip of my hat to my fellow posters on this one!
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#28
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Buck can say what they wish, but the Buck Rush assisted opening knife I bought with 420HC doesn't particularly hold a good edge. Tried it at work, cutting tape, cardboard, plastic tiedowns etc., and it didn't do as well as my Gerber AR-3.0 in 440A, even though it has a much thinner blade geometry. Blade dulled pretty quickly, even after I re-sharpened it on my belt grinder using a 700 grit Tri-ax belt/buffer to a convex edge. Wan't like I was trying to beat it to death. I use 154CM instead of ATS-34, but I've used the latter, and it's infinitely better than 420HC. As far as toughness goes, if you want to pry things, and this is only what I read and can't personally verify, ATS-34, properly HT'd will supposedly bend around 30 Degrees before snapping(obviously a lot of factors here...blade geometry, distal taper or not etc).
__________________ Joel Bolden Halfmoon Knives Port Matilda, PA. http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...&paginator=top http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...&paginator=top Last edited by Joel; 12-29-2005 at 10:37 AM. |
#29
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BTW, I agree with the crew, 420 is tougher and resists rust better. ATS-34 holds an edge better in everyday cutting. Joe |
#30
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tmickley: I am in progress of try a new stainlessteel and cant deside wich steel to use. Why do you prefer 154 over ATS 34. I thinking on CPM 154 to and Bg 42. Seved |
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blade, folding knife, forging, knife, knives |
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