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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 06-22-2015, 04:15 PM
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Hunter10139 Hunter10139 is offline
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Question for you experts....

Hey guys, I've been making knives out of 1080 and 1084 for a while now. While I love the steel, I'd like to branch off a bit and I have a question for you steel junkies out there.

I'm thinking about purchasing some W-2 steel for two reasons. First, from what I have read and seen, it produces a spectacular hamon. Second, I have also read that it is an excellent forging steel, and I'm getting ready to try some forging(vs stock removal). I do have access to a temperature controlled furnace, so heat treatment should not be a problem. My question is, is there any reason not switch to this steel, and if so, what steel would you recommend as an alternative?


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Old 06-22-2015, 05:13 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Most guys here will tell you to master one steel before switching to another. As far as W-2 being an easy steel to forge, well 1080 is going to seem like silly putty next to W-2. To decide which steel is easy, choose the best one for the job intended. For example, for a big rough use Bowie 5160 will be a good choice but for a skinning knife 52100 will perform well. Now the steels you are working with (along with the W-2) will fall in between these.
If you are competent in using the 1080, then by all means try some W-2.
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  #3  
Old 06-22-2015, 06:45 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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What James said. No harm in trying W2. If you can reliably heat treat your 1084 blades then you are ready to branch out if you want to. For forging, my choice would be W2 or 5160 depending on the knife to be made ...


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Old 06-22-2015, 07:05 PM
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Thanks guys, yeah with the electric furnace at work, the hardening process is pretty simple. I'm not making any huge knives any time soon so I'm going to try W-2.


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Old 06-23-2015, 06:29 AM
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Rule of thumb in forgable steels: higher the carbon content the stiffer the steel at forgable temps. Extra alloys in the mix can also increase stiffness.

The recommended 1084 and 5160 steels are easier to learn the forging game as far as developing hammer control and temp control, as they are much more forgiving. The higher carbon steels are a lot more finicky about thermal control - both over heating and cold striking. You have much less room for learning curve mistakes.

"Here in Lies the Rub" as old Willie would say. Those new to forging that start with the stiffer materials tend to develop "heavy hammer syndrome" and hit too hard having all kinds of problems with lightning up their blows as the blade takes shape. Then they wonder why they have issues with deeper dings that are hard or impossible to remove when they finish the blade. They also tend to develop that one-last-hit issue on stiff steels resulting in micro stress cracks that only show up when the blade is finished and etched. Understand that these cannot be removed by any reasonable form of thermal cycling other than total remelt and mix.

By all means try the W2, but study up on it's quirks about forging temp ranges.....it does not fair well with cold strikes or over heating. Just remember hammons do not indicate a quality made blade just a result of differential hardening quench speed. Doesn't mean you got it right. Lot of beautiful hammons out there on very poor cutting instruments. Proper thermal cycling and edge geometry make the blade not the bling bling.

If you take the time to develop proper forging techniques/skills you will be able to work with any of the forgable steels with confidence and get quality results. Now go start a fire!


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  #6  
Old 06-23-2015, 08:23 AM
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Hunter10139 Hunter10139 is offline
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Thanks for the input Carl, yeah I completely understand that a hamon does not indicate a quality blade. I'm wanting a hamon mainly for artistic reasons.

So I guess my question is now, is it realistic to learn to forge with W-2 on my own, since I don't know any knifemakers near me. I'm still planning on purchasing some W-2, but should I stick to stock removal until I can purchase some 1084 or 5160?

Also, I have a leaf spring that I'm going to test heat treat a small sample of it like it's 5160. I'll check the hardness and break it and look at the grain. If I get good results that mimic how 5160 performs under heat treat, would this be a viable option for me to learn to forge?


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Old 06-24-2015, 06:08 AM
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Sure, it's always better to learn on blade quality steels than mild or junk steels. Just, as mentioned above, the higher the carbon content the more finicky the process which makes the learning curve steeper.
1084 and 5160 are way more forgiving of the rookie mistakes in temp control and hammer technique .... the things you need to learn up front.
I'd definitely go for it with the leaf spring if it tests out well.

I'd be willing to bet that with a little harder looking you can find a bladesmith within reasonable driving distance that you can learn from. I have found over the years (many, many years) that there are usually two or more knifemakers in every town with populations over 500. They just aren't out standing at the end of their driveway with a sign. Most are working a money making job to pay for this addiction they have with steel and sharp pointy things.

Where 'bouts are you in N. AL?
I know a few smiths in the NE area of AL and they may be able to help you find someone close. They had been discussing starting an AL Knife Guild at one time. There is also Jim Batson's Tanninhill Hammer-in every spring where a lot of Bama boys show up - a good place to make connections.

Also you are always welcome to stop by my shop, (if you can catch me home) when/if you are over in my area north of Atlanta. Plus you have a standing invite to my Trackrock Hammer-ins in Blairsville, GA. Next one is last weekend in Sept. (watch for announcement in the GA Guild Forum here on KNF).


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  #8  
Old 06-24-2015, 08:10 AM
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Well I live in New Market, but work in the Huntsville area. I wish I could make it over to your shop or the trackrock hammer-in, it's just hard to find time to travel that far since I'm still finishing up my degree and working full time. Career has to come first . If i could meet up with someone closer that would be great, I don't want to start forging by doing things the wrong way.


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Old 06-25-2015, 05:27 AM
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Understand the dilemma. I know several knifemakers over toward your area. I will see if any are close enough for a visit for you. Huntsville is full of makers just don't know any right there in town.

Best bet would be to visit some of the smaller independent gun shops and ask around. Most of them have a custom knife or two in their display case. Get contact info and make contact. Just about all the makers I know and have met are like the folks here and are willing to share knowledge/technique. Also go to few of the Gun/Knife Shows and look for the vendors who are actually makers they are always good for leads.


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  #10  
Old 06-25-2015, 08:00 AM
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Thanks Carl, looks like there is a gun and knife show in huntsville this august so hopefully I can make it to that. If you do have any contacts in the area I'd appreciate a pm with how to contact them.


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Old 06-25-2015, 10:10 PM
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GHEzell GHEzell is offline
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I find w2 easier to forge than 5160, I blame the chromium... W2 is a great steel, think of it as a slightly sooped up cleaner 1095. You might want to look into your faster quench oils (parks#50) in order to get it to its fullest potential hardness in the quench.... or try brine if you're brave.

You are right down the road from me, I'm in Athens. Look into the Alabama Forge Council and http://athensforge.com/ for more of us... the Athens Forge has its monthly meeting this Saturday....


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  #12  
Old 06-26-2015, 04:54 AM
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pm sent.


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  #13  
Old 06-26-2015, 12:01 PM
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Hunter10139 Hunter10139 is offline
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Thanks Carl.

GHEzell I'm definitely interested in learning from y'all. Are non-members allowed to show up to your meetings to learn about the society or do I have to join first? I don't know if I can make it this Saturday, I'd have to clear it with the wife.

I hate that I just missed your knife forging class. Maybe I can catch another one sometime.


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Old 06-26-2015, 10:21 PM
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GHEzell GHEzell is offline
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Non-members are welcome to come to meetings, but are encouraged to join if they wish to participate, mostly due to insurance coverage that comes with membership.

We are planning to have a bladesmithing class, the idea is to have a forged, ground, and heat-treated blade in one day, then the next weekend work on handles and guards, but we have not yet set a date.


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A good friend told me one time about forging "What is there not to like, you get to break all the rules you were told as a kid, don't play with that it is sharp, don't play with fire, and don't beat on that"
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See some of my work.
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  #15  
Old 06-27-2015, 12:33 AM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Hunter, the Vulcan forge (Tannehill) is still active and meeting. I believe Athens also meets. Batsons would have been a good thing for you. Put this years conference at Tannehill on your "to do" list. I've been trying to get the Tuscaloosa Forge fired up again, as of yet there is no interest in doing so by our local membership. Probably why things fell apart here.
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