Seax tang

[Jonathan Gage]

You guys are great. The wearing idea yes needs to be taken account of and i will try to always keep that in mind from now on when doing analysis.
Carl, I agree that I have never seen anything like what I am proposing, but its been in gnawing in the back of my mind.

The primary question is... does the picture show that topigraphical deformation that I have outlined. If we decide it does, then we can hypothesize on why it does.

A resonance of thought I am hoping is true is that there is still more information about the seax knife blades of the migration period to be explored and discovered. (We may have fallen into the commercialization trap of making seaxes that we know the customer would expect to see instead of exploring what really was. If my knives do not sell because I push the envelope, no problem. All I ask is that my knives have an honest soul, I am searching for the truth in the piece)

[Dodd]

I made a wooden one with a pivot between the handle and blade to adjust the angles and strike it against things to determine where the most comfort/purpose/angle ratios are. I was thinking of intersting ways to do this in steel, but I don't really work in that material yet ;-)

[cwp]

Jonathan,

I agree, I still do this as a form a therapy, so there is no profit motive for me either.

I am trying to tie two things together, one, the data that I have collected, (things like http://www.arkeodok.com/Reports.html) and other places, and two, the modern knifemakers I have seen.

As modern knifemakers, we are pretty good at making a blade, but are we as good as the ancients whose life depended on the tool? Have we come up with a better grind?

These questions have led me to thinking the basic grinds that are used so successfully by modern knifemaker's are the ones that were also known and used by our ancestors.

I am going to send an e-mail to a maker I know that has a bunch of these in his collection and ask his opinion on the grinds.

--Carl

[cwp]

Take a look at this knife by Don Halter:

Here's a few originals. My version rolled over a bit in the scanner so it looks kinda skinny in this picture, but most of the dimentions are the same. Mine sweeps up at the tip about 3/16" higher than the original.

The others are just some neat little ones I have. The bottom one has a double fuller along the spine on the right side. The broken-back seax shaped one is about 2 1/4" long. None of these have undergone electrolysis and preservation yet.

--Carl

[hammerdownnow]

Get to grinding Dodd. Am I going to have to send you a preform and a file?

[Dodd]

um, I don't know what a preform is, but I just got an annealed file.
I can't yet decide on the shape of the blade I want from it, so I started with some full-hard files and started grinding them with my 1x30 sander. I got a nice, traditional tanto point on it, and the rest is just a few belts away.

I can even do the handle wrap with the paper triangles now.
I can't forge anymore (yet?) as I've broken 2 bones and injured the joint of one knuckle on one hand.

I'll have something small for you to see soon, I hope.
Thanks for the push!

- Andrew Dodd

[Dodd]

Wait. i see what you mean. I could just use a file to shape the knife.
I should know this by now. I fear I've done other things with all the old files I've been given. only one is annealed. The others are just rusty. ;-)

Thanks for the offer though!

[hammerdownnow]

You dont know what a preform is ? Even after I posted a pic? A preform is a hammered out blade annealed and ready to grind.

You will save on belts if you use a hard wheel grinder to do your profiling and to knock the square edges off the blade.

Have you seen the Jonsey tutorial? Some good info on when you just gotta make a knife but are limited on tools.

Jonesy tutorial

[fitzo]

Roc, is that drawing behind the file by your own hand?? It's way neat.

If someone were to get an email of that drawing, they may well try their hand at a woodcarving....

[cwp]

Got the calipers out for the image above. This knife would come very close to fitting in a modern cutting competition.

I got a measurement of 10.9 length, 1.65 Width (@ the break), with a 3.9 tang. Did some thinking and adjusting and came out with a knife of 11 inches by 1.7 inches, with a good 5 or 5.5 inch handle.

After getting some things wrapped up, this would be a great knife to pull together and make a replica.

--Carl

[Dodd]

Originally Posted by hammerdownnow

You dont know what a preform is ? Even after I posted a pic? A preform is a hammered out blade annealed and ready to grind.

You will save on belts if you use a hard wheel grinder to do your profiling and to knock the square edges off the blade.

Have you seen the Jonsey tutorial? Some good info on when you just gotta make a knife but are limited on tools.

Jonesy tutorial

I was a dummypants and replied before looking at the picture, then replied again thereafter. I have been through Jonsey's tutorial when I was chatting with Jerry Hossom about pros and cons of CPM-3V, which I thought I might use to make the Seax I'd had the idea for. I think there was a unanimous "You can't HANDLE the 3V!" so I'm pricing A2, 01, 5160, and 1095. I found a place walking distance from me that does waterjet cutting, and thought I"d have it blanked out that way. the piece of 3V was $339.00 at 24x4x3/8.
No thanks. I'd rather beat up a hot but free truck spring, or buy it cheap.

[cwp]

Dodd,

I would go 5160 to start.

Resononing:
5160 heat treat is simple, takes a good differential treat, and is easy and cheap to get in sizes for seaxs.

1095 is getting to be unrealiable and needs a really fast quench.

O1 is easy to work and quench. Can crack if hit at black heat. It is deep hardening and is more difficult to get a good differential treatment.

A2 ???? I haven't worked this one, so I would have to play with it. This is an air hardening steel though, so it is likely to be deep hardening also. Again, someone with more knowledge about this should chime in.

To get 5160, I would call Kelly Cupples and order from him. He has good prices and shipping is included when you order enough.

--Carl

[Dodd]

5160 it is then!
You know, I think I came to this decision before.

I'm in Canada, and don't know who Kelly Cupples is.
I'm sure I'll feel silly once I find out it's a company or something.
I"m waiting on a quote from metalsupermarkets. A neat store idea.

Ah, in the time it took to post this message, i managed to find out the details. They don't have anything but 01 in the size I need.

Roughly 28x4x3/8 inches.

[cwp]

Kelly is an individual that supplies steel. Great guy to work with and even sit around and BS with.

What do you need 4" for? That is some wide stock. You might need to hit Crucible, or Admiral for that width of stock.

quote from a post of Kelly's talking about 1084. I would at least send an e-mail and see if he has what you need and what it would take to get it to Canada.

Hi Mike,
Yes I still have some 1084 1/8 x 1 and 1/8 x 1 1/4 and several other 10xx series steels anyone wanting info send me an e-mail
and I'll send you current stock list. octihunter@charter.net

Another hint I have seen for starting pounding steel. Start with a 3-5" blade. Don't push yourself to far to fast.

--Carl

[Dodd]

I would agree with your statements but for one thinng:
The HUGE Seax that I'm making is machete-like and 3-4 inches at the apex of the broken back. It's also 24 or so inches long and quite thick.
it's for my brother, who is made of meat.

Crucible has stock like that, but it's $400+ for the piece I want, and shouldn't start in some material I don't understand well. I have a piece of a big truck spring that fits the dimensions but one end it over 2 inches thick.