Back to the Seax

[Jeff Pringle]

I decided to be more than just historically inspired, and do a direct copy of an artifact.
It?s been a fun experience, so I thought I?d post some progress photos.
First thing was to find a scaled drawing of a seax, (not a lot of actual seax in California) which is possible by going through the bibliographies of books on swords and looking for the original papers through the rare book dealers on the web.
This is an 8th cent. Seax from the Netherlands, with two bars of twist damascus side by side along the back, and decorative grooving as well.


Next was to blow up the drawing on a copier to full size, and re-draw it on graph paper to what it probably looked like pre-corrosion. This really helped me get a feel for the overall proportions, not as good as an actual artifact in the hand, but pretty good.
On to the forge!

[Jeff Pringle]

I blew this right off the bat! Ignoring the two side-by-side bars of the original, I put together a three-bar stack. Then I welded on the edge material without accounting for the cool upswept end of the damascus in the original. And I welded it up short and drew it out to length, stretching the pattern as if I didn?t know better. D?oh! Then, while forging, I must have been thinking about the Beagnoth seax, instead of my chosen one, ?cause the overall proportions of the forged shape are heading more in that direction. 4? too short, ?? too narrow, guess I need more metal in the billet!

[Jeff Pringle]

This time I got headed in the right direction! Almost right on the money, and a very interesting forging experience. Of course, I reversed the direction of the damascus bars ? it?s hard to tell in the drawing, but the twist should be slanted forward, I managed to put the bars on backwards. Need to drop the point a bit, too ? get a slightly sharper angle on the clip. By welding the bars up for the blade almost at length, it shifts the way you get to the final shape, a lot more stretching towards the edge. I realized I usually work my blades in both directions (along and across the blade length) equally when going from billet to blade, so it was really a good experience to shift the emphasis.
I think I just forged the mother of all Bowies!



I think I?ll pause now and put handles on these before going on and doing the 'exact' copy with decorative grooves.

[Greg obach]

very nice
Jeff you make some great stuff.... you've gotta cool style

Greg

[Roger Gregory]

Now that's nice work!

I like both versions, the pattern-welding and the blade shapes are both great.

Next instalment please

Roger

[stoneman]

Jeff, if that first blade is a mistake, it is one of the finest mistakes I have ever seen.
Love them both, can't wait to see the finished product.
Thanks for posting.

[VSMBlades]

I second Dean's post. I wish I made mistakes like that.

[Jeff Pringle]

Thanks, guys - It?s not that those blades are mistakes, they just aren?t that 8th century seax that I started out trying to do. The interesting thing about this (for me) is how it has made me realize a subtle and fundamental limitation on my smithing, that I might never have noticed had I not tried to do an exact copy. It?s funny how the first blade came out more like many blades I?d forged previously than like the target blade. My standard thought process ?to get to blade shape xyz, start with billet shape abc? didn?t work, but now I know I can use billet shape ????? and head right for the dark ages, if I need to. Or rather, I have more potential blade shapes in every damascus billet now, which is cool.
Of course, if I had tried to copy the Beagnoth seax, I might not have realized anything, since that one is more in line with my subconscious blade geometries. Fortunately for me, J. Loose is taking care of that one.
Jeff

[J.Arthur Loose]

Those are really nice, Jeff!

I don't think the pattern is too stretched out in the first piece at all.

Oh, and definitely I expect a few trial pieces before I get the Beagnoth piece right...

[Jesse Frank]

Those are great, Jeff. Impressive as always.

How are you planning on putting the grooves in?

[Jeff Pringle]

How are you planning on putting the grooves in?

The profile of the original is two roundish groves with some ' } ' shape in the middle, so I'm going to try a cross between a sen and a cabinet/molding scraper first, to cut the entire profile with one tool up to the point, where the end grooves start to converge. And if that doesn't work, I'll do it with individual scrapers, files and stones. It's not too deep, so even with the complex profile it will not be too much of a PITA.
Jeff (always the optimist!)

[Dodd]

Originally Posted by Jeff Pringle

I blew this right off the bat! Ignoring the two side-by-side bars of the original, I put together a three-bar stack. Then I welded on the edge material without accounting for the cool upswept end of the damascus in the original. And I welded it up short and drew it out to length, stretching the pattern as if I didn?t know better. D?oh! Then, while forging, I must have been thinking about the Beagnoth seax, instead of my chosen one, ?cause the overall proportions of the forged shape are heading more in that direction. 4? too short, ?? too narrow, guess I need more metal in the billet!

That's exactly what I've needed to see for so long.
I've got a sort of hybrid/modern seax thing I've been wanting to make and you speak as though what you've done is "all in a day's work.". I know better. It shows you have real skill.

I've built my own forge, and have never successfully forge welded anything yet, but I read constantly and try out new things. I now understand a thing or two about metallurgy, heat treatment, and blade dynamics, but all that means squat without skill, which in turn is hard to justify without actualization.

This my friend is where I hope some day to make it to.
My thanks to you and the likes of JL for inspiring me to get into this.

This is my first post to this particular knife forum.
I apologize if I have somehow ignorantly talked out of turn or not followed protocol in some manner.

Keep up the good work.
I wait eagerly to see your next works,
sincerely;
- Andrew Dodd

[hammerdownnow]

Thanks for bumping this thread Andrew. Some of the older threads are the best ones. Maybe it will prompt Jeff to give us an update.

[Jeff Pringle]

Welcome to the forum, Andrew, and thanks for the compliment- it?s all in a decade?s work, if not a day!
I wish I had more of an update to give, but I accidentally spent much of the first half of this year socializin? and working on other stuff, so the seaxs aren?t as finished as they oughta should be.
I?m about half way done carving an oosik handle for the 3-bar blade, and just finished this one:


Larger Photo:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jlp3/images/seax0506.jpg



Larger Photo:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jlp3/images/seax0505.jpg

It?s sharp, and really fast ? after cutting through some rope & 2X4s, and comparing it with swords I?ve done, I can see why Grettir might have preferred a big seax.

Regarding forge welding, there are a couple of pretty good how-to threads scattered about the knife forums, but IMO the best thing when starting out is to do a lot of small pieces ? you?ll get a feel for it much more quickly. And high carbon is easier to weld than low. Best of all is to see it done, I started out with bad directions from my high school shop teacher, and struggled for a couple of years of failure before seeing it and having success that day. If you?ve not seen it done, I bet a trip to CanIron V (http://caniron.ca/index2.html) in Nova Scotia would be worthwhile, there?s bound to be some welding going on there. I?m sure there are more local opportunities, too.
Careful, though ? once you start on Damascus, there?s no turning back ? plain old ?regular? steel becomes really boring.

[J.Arthur Loose]

Welcome to Seax Addicts Anonymous, Andrew; Jeff is right, once you go down this path the best you can expect to ever be is a *recovering* Seax-addict.

There's something both seriously satisfying & challenging about the simplicity of Migration patterns...

Out of curiosity Jeff... is the spotting on the second piece surface decarb or a result of carburizing?