big blades

[PDCarby]

hey guys,
i know alot of you, (primarily all of you) make KNIVES. but i am really interested in larger blades, swords and axes mainly. have any of you tried these or do you make them regularly? i am still kinda green and am usure as to a next step to take except that this is a direction that i want to pursue. i read once that the steel you used for a sword blade had to be something different than knife steel, so i am not sure as to what that may be. axes as well, that i have not tried but am anxious to. so any help there would be helpful. i appriciate your all help. you have definatly helped foster a curiosity into a full blown hobby. for that and all your responses i say thanks.

paul david

[whv]

i'll suggest you start here, paul. this guy is a master.
welcome to the forums!

[Martyn]

Originally posted by PDCarby
i read once that the steel you used for a sword blade had to be something different than knife steel, so i am not sure as to what that may be.

paul david

Welcome.

What is probably meant here is the use of carbon steel for the sword blade, over the commonly used stainless steel for a knife blade. Although carbon makes excellent knife blades too. With knives, there is a lot of steel choice. A knife needs to have a keen edge, that lasts well and a strong blade. You can achieve this with a huge variety of steels. A sword however, must have flexibility, toughness and strength. A springiness that is very difficult to get from the more brittle stainless steels. Virtually any sword worth it's salt is made from carbon steel for this reason. If you ever see a sword made from stainless, it's a display piece only, completely unsuitable for combat.

[cactusforge]

Paul, welcome to the forums, as far as steel goes 5160 is hard to beat for both swords, large Bowie's and axes. the best advice I can give is to start with small size Bowie's say a 6" or 7" blade and then when you get that down pat start getting bigger. Swords are something els so make sure you know the large Bowie's first, like 12" to 16" blades. Axes will come in time.
Gib

[Jason Cutter]

Sorry to be a downer.

I guess there are general rules you have to follow when in the early stages of making knives. Start in the middle and work your way up or down. Its just as hard to make a really small knife as it is to make a really big one. Swords are in a class of their own, so much so that many if not most makers will NEVER go there !

From reading up about it, it requires a skill level and knowledge around the forge that is quite daunting. If you're dead keen, I wish a lot of luck. But in general terms, you need some basic experience first, if you haven't already got that. To launch straight into it, would be recipe for some nasty surprises and plenty of frustration. That tends to kill enthusiasm real quick ! Which would be a pity.

Gib of Cactus Forge has already suggested - I second that. Make a 4inch blade, learn to get it nice. Make a 6inch blade, then an 8 incher, then a 10 incher etc. You'll find that the skill required increases tremedously as you go. Everyone has their "wall." My own wall was getting up to the 8incher. Some others easily made big blades, till they tried a 14inch knife - just wouldn't work. So they made 13inchers !!

Definitely practise, dream and do it, you might find your niche along the way. You never know ...

Cheers.

[PDCarby]

thank you for your advise. i appriciate it. do you all view a sword maker or in my case someone who wants to mak swords as different from your craft? someone once told me sword makers are like people who study latin, trying to revive something that was long since dead. that was kinda discouraging, simply cause that is what intrests me the most. what do you think?

[cactusforge]

Swords are a challenge, a new set of tricks and methods that need a foundation of past experience to master. One example, a 4" blade is easy to get it straight and keep it straight, try that with a 30" sword, a new ball game for sure.
They are fun to make, no I don't think we are trying to revive something that is dead. Sword making is a art form in it"s self that is current, just look at large company's that are importing swords made off shore. There is a lot of interest in them.
Gib

[Jason Cutter]

Gib's explanation is better than mine. Making nice cutting instruments from a piece of steel is what its all about, but different designs have inherent challenges that demand different ranges of knowledge. In fact, there are sword makers who have never made small knives, ever and possibly wouldn't know how to. Even if many of the general principles of steel quality, forging, heat treating are similar, they aren't the same.

Nothing dead about swords, or Latin for that matter. You just have a specific interest about swords. Hell, I have fantasies about making a sword. Many makers do.

I think that the most positive thing you can do to learn to make swords is to actually START. On the concept of learning, I honestly don't think you can actually acquire the necessary knowledge to get it right without actually starting and getting things wrong first. With starting small, it is about managing your goals realistically so that your achievements bolster your attempts to always strive higher than before.

With very large blades (and very small ones for that matter) you are more likely to fail more often, than with a smaller knife. Put it another way, I made maybe 50-60 knives before I started making remotely "sellable" knives. I had perhaps 200 knives in stock which I have now reviewed after 1 year - and I have eliminated all but 16knives ! By my current standards, the rest were just crap. BUT VERY IMPORTANT CRAP. Those 200+ "unsellable" knives are a marker of my progress and all bear minor but crucial learning experiences that lead to progress in the future knives. Nonetheless, I had to "endure" the so-called failures of those now-discarded knivest to reach where I am now with quality and fit and finish. IN a couple of years, I'll probably view all this is a different light again. I'm sure many makers are the same in this respect.

In the case of knifemaking it also about getting set up with equipment, which is different, depending on what sort of knives you're making - precision folders, fixed blades, primitive designs, lapidiary and jewellery stuff or the BIG BIG blades, like swords.

Hope this perspective takes it from a different angle. Its not about discouraging, but being aware of some of the issues and limitations and difficulties, and if you're still willing to get on it, then fantastic !

And no, I certainly don't see you as different or separate from me as a maker. Your ambitions, and your experiences, even if you never become a "maker" are good for the craft.

Cheers.

[cactusforge]

It is very interesting to look at a knife that you havent seen for 10 years and to see where you were then and now. Gib