Akryloid B-72

[DiamondG Knives]

Has sanyone tried Akryloid B-72 (sp?) for stabilization?

Also has anyone know a source for it, and how it works??

Thanks And God Bless

Mike

[SteveS]

I've done a few woods and antler with it.

I haven't tried pressure, but used vacuum.

Results:

Antler - Just awsome, slightly darker color. Fills everything from the core out. Takes a beautiful polish. I keep a piece on my desk just for fun.

Wood - I got full penetration, but it did not create a hard finished product. Water would still raise a grain. I tried everything from 20 to 50% dilution (by weight) with toulene and some with 20% acetone. Soak times from hours to days. The best results were at around 25% solution in toulene, 4 hour soak. All sorts of woods, professionally dry (I believed).

Ivory - Seemed to work but can't tell

-----------------------------
I got mine from some wood finishing products site on the web. Came in bead form. Easy to use at least.

Does that help?

Steve

[cwp]

Mike,

I have not tried it yet, but I just picked some up from woodfinishingsupplies.com. They seemed to have decent prices and good service. I got the link from another thread on stabalizing.
Stabalizing Bone
I did a quick search on B-72 to find the thread and came up with a bunch of hits, including links to suppliers other than the above.

--Carl

[Bernez]

BTW,

Acryloid B-72 and Paraloid B-72 are exactly the same stuff.
Paraloid is the name used in Europe. Museum restaurator use it a lot.

Edit:
Kremer Pigments (Germany)

Bernez

[DiamondG Knives]

Thanks for the post guys. Im looking for somthing that will give a hard finish as well as having void filling properties for burl woods.
Anyone know what the pro's are using??

Is there a cureing temp these pieces need to reach, or is air dry ok?

At $12 a lb finished weight, would I be better off sending to K&G or WSSI ?

Kind of like the do it yourself idea, but Id like to get pro results!
Oh well, cant have it all!!

Id love to hear any other ideas you guys might have!

Thanks and God Bless

Mike

[JGardner]

I have used it on a couple of knives with maple burl handles. 15% in acetone, pulled a vacuum, and left it until the bubble stopped, then repeated. I kept this up until the handle material wouldn't float any longer. At that point I placed wood on a bakers rack and let the acetone evaporate away. I didn't try to "set" the Akryloid in the scales by heating or anything else; as a consequence it was gummy when I tried to work it. I have yet to go back and try a low heat (or something else) to see if I get a less gummy finished product. You might also consider using Minwax Wood Hardener, that is if you haven't already. At least in my case I got about the same results with less irritation.


Justin

[Darren Ellis]

Mike, If you're looking to turn wood into a polymer block like WSSI does, then you need to be looking for Resinol 90C or a source for MMA. Be prepared to pay the price for these though, as well as having to deal with the shelf life unless you're doing a lot of stabilizing. Other than that, Nelsonite and B-72 are about the best two other options out there....

Also, not wanting to dredge up that "other" thread, I spoke to the manufacturers of Nelsonite 30B02, and the opened container has a shelf life of approximately 3 - 4 months, so looks like I'll plan to keep supplying it in smaller quantities as I have been doing. If you store it under vacuum, purge the headspace in the storage container, or "top up" the container by adding something to it (ball bearings, clean pieces of steel, etc), it will last longer, but keeping it away from air is key the manufacturer tells me...otherwise it starts to lose its efficacy.



-Darren

[Bernez]

Hi guys,

Has somebody a good source for a cheap vacuum (hand) pump, something like a brake bleader vacuum pump (i.e. Mityvac). Or maybe some alternatives and/or ideas?

Bernez

[DiamondG Knives]

I have a commercial vaccume pump. Brand is "Robbibair" used by HVAC guys to pull vacume on A/C units.

Picked it up on ebay for $45. Havnt seen it yet, as Im away from home! Should be like Christmas all over again! Been buying all sorts of shop stuff on ebay!

Does anyone have any ideas for a pressure vessel for stabilizing. Been thinking a large pressure cooker, the type with the dogs on top that screw down.

Darren, do you know what WSSI and K&G are using? I know its not cheap, but do you have any idea on the price?

Thanks

Mike

[Darren Ellis]

Originally posted by Bernez
Hi guys,

Has somebody a good source for a cheap vacuum (hand) pump, something like a brake bleader vacuum pump (i.e. Mityvac). Or maybe some alternatives and/or ideas?

Bernez

Hi Bernez,

Do an ebay search, I know there's a company that sells on there that has lab hand vac pumps for something like $25... If you find one and they won't ship internationally, you can always have it shipped to me and I'll send it to you...or there's an auto parts store 50 feet from my shop, I could send you a Mityvac from them if you needed...



-Darren

[Alain M-D]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Darren Ellis
...or "top up" the container by adding something to it (ball bearings, clean pieces of steel, etc), it will last longer, but keeping it away from air is key the manufacturer tells me...


Hello Darren !
I use "Air Reduction Darkroom Photo Chemical Storage Bottles" to keep my
photographic chemical, maybe that can be useful to store your stabilisation stuff ?



Alain M-D
http://www.amd.miville-deschenes.com

[Darren Ellis]

Mike,

Sounds like you are going to have an extra Christmas when you get home!

Your idea for the pressure cooker sounds good, or if you can find a 2.5 gallon paint pot that would work too. Alternatively, you could just build one...weld a base-plate to a piece of heavy walled pipe and then weld a ring on top and put an o-ring seal between it and a top-plate. Then you could just braze various fittings on the top-plate. The o-ring seal should be adequate for pressures you'll obtain with that Robinair pump. When I was working in the physics lab, my vacuum chamber for field emission experiments would pump down to 10^-7 Torr with an o-ring seal door....of course, we had a roughing pump backing a turbo pump to get it that low You'll probably be able to get in the 10^1 Torr range with that HVAC pump, so you'll probably be fine with any of the above options...

I'm not *exactly* sure what they are using, I've not seen anywhere where they've reported it on a public forum....but it is probably something like the Resinol or MMA. I know that Resinol 90C runs about $300 for 4 gallons and comes with an activator. After stabilizing, it requires baking to heat set the material.



-Darren

[Darren Ellis]

Originally posted by Alain M-D

Hello Darren !
I use "Air Reduction Darkroom Photo Chemical Storage Bottles" to keep my
photographic chemical, maybe that can be useful to store your stabilisation stuff ?

Alain M-D
[/B]

Hi Alain,

Hey, that's a pretty cool idea!!! I wonder how well they hold up to solvents? I'm going to have to look into those in more detail, many thanks for posting that!

-Darren

[TJ Smith]

Just glueing on handle that I treated with a Akryloid B-72.
I added it to minwax wood hardener as it has a lot of acetone in it.
Vacumed the handle block for three days and put pressure on for 1 day.
It dried up fine. We'll see how it does.
Minwax does fine as far as far as firming up the wood but doesn't fill the pores.
I'll post when done.
Take Care
TJ

[Bernez]

Do an ebay search, I know there's a company that sells on there that has lab hand vac pumps for something like $25... If you find one and they won't ship internationally, you can always have it shipped to me and I'll send it to you...or there's an auto parts store 50 feet from my shop, I could send you a Mityvac from them if you needed...

Darren

Thx Darren, I'll keep it in mind
Would a Mityvac be good/strong enought ?

Bernez