D2 for a hidden tang hunter?

[Jerry Shorter]

I am thinking of making a hidden tang (perhaps mortised), small hunting knife , abount 8.5 OAL with a 4 inch blade out of 1.25 wide x 1/8 thick D2.
My question is, because D2 is a bit brittle at 60-62 Rc would it be strong enough where the tang is reduced. The design that I am thinking of requires the tang to be 1/2" wide max.

The guy that I am making this for packs into the high-up Nevada mountains (10-11,000 feet) to hunt deer, and because when he packs back out he is carring well over 100 pounds he only carries one knife, and he has to trust that it will hold up.

any input would be appreciated.

Jerry

[Ray Rogers]

D2 is a very tough steel and it would probably be OK in that scenario 90% of the time. But, that's a pretty high Rockwell for a blade that thin if it gets abused. One thing I see over and over with guys that carry one knife into the high country is that they like to hammer that little blade through the pelvis of the deer to split it. With a little bad luck that blade might not survive that.

My advice would be to not take the Rockwell so high if you are set on using D2. After all, he's only skinning one deer. Any good steel will skin several deer before re-sharpening is needed so all that hardness doesn't seem necessary.

Another alternative would be to use a different steel. My preference is for O1 with a zoned heat treatment. Make the edge hard and the back soft and he can hammer that blade through the whole deer lengthwise and never have to worry about it. There are also other steels that can be heat treated the same way if you like something else but O1 is easy to treat and is about as tough as a knife can get......

[Jerry Shorter]

Ray, good advice! I talked to him again and found out he is pretty rough on his knife. So I think I will do as you suggested and go with O1 or something simular and do the zoned heat treat.

Thanks a lot, Jerry

[berettaman12000]

Good choice on the 0-1, it is one heck of a good knife steel, definetely near the top in my opinion!

[Gary Mulkey]

Jerry,

I believe that you will find that both steels are excellant blade steels and up to the job. Something that you might concider since you are apparently concerned about the strength of the knife is that you might want to consider using a thicker piece of steel. For such knives I usually use a piece from .170-.185" thick with a sabre grind. This way you will have plenty of spine to the blade for taking abuse.

I use a lot of D2 and have found that you want a target hardness of 60Rc for the best balance of toughness & edge holding. It is an oddball steel as to it's toughness curve and is actually tougher at 60Rc than it is at 58Rc but O1 will also make an excellant blade (your choice).

There was an excellant thread a while back as to the strength comparison of a hidden tang vs. full tang that you might also be interested in.

Good luck,

Gary

[Jerry Shorter]

Gary, Thanks for the reply, Reading your reply jolted me into a solution to my delima that never entered my hollow head before.

Why not make a blade, but witout the fine finish and test it to destruction? It just occured to me that is the only way that I will ever know for sure. Not that I don't value all of your guy's advice on the subject. but is is such a simple solution.

Again thanks a bunch to every one of you.

Jerry

[whv]

perhaps better yet, jerry - have your customer help you test it. sometimes gives you a whole different perspective on the outcome when someone else tries to break one for you.

[Jason Cutter]

D2 is a good steel. I personally feel its main advantage over O-1 is the improved (but not complete) stain resistance. I still prefer O-1 for all its other cutlery properties.

Strength on a hidden tang IMHO, is a non-issue. I feel that theoretically, the reduced steel mass makes the blade more vulnerable, but the scenarios where a blade would break at the blade / tang junction are few and few in between. If you've seen the ABS bending tests, the blade being bent seems to evenly bend across its entire length (depending on the HT), it doesn't bend more at the tang junction. I am also referring to the ones where a lead pipe is NOT being used and the pressure in on the end of the tang.

Nonetheless, you should / could make sure the junction leading into the tang has radiused edged for stress distribution. D2 is definitely not reknown as the toughest steel around, but you have to remember that very few mere mortals can actually break a blade under normal circumstances. But of course there are those who seem to go out of their way to destroy good knives.

I would second the comment about using a hardness between 59-61RC on D2. Edge-holding and toughness BOTH seem to peak at that range. Jason.

[shgeo]

If you look at the specs on D2 posted on Crucible's website, it peaks in impact resistance at HRC 60.

I have used D2, O1 and A2 making hunting knives and prefer D2 for it superior edge holding capabnility. I think A2 is ahead of O1 for edge holding and similar in toughness. A friend dressed, skinned and cut up three bull elk last fall with a D2 knife I made for him wihout sharpening it. It has a convex ground 1/8" thick blade.

I have been hunting for 40 years and always use one knife. You don't have to split the pelvis to dress an animal, just ream around the anus and pull it all out from the inside. The first time you ruin a good knife on a large bull elk pelvis will make a believer out of you.

I have made both hidden and full tang D2 blades without having any break that I know of.

[Jerry Shorter]

Steve, thanks for that info, i think I read somewhere that you quench in oil. could you explain your method?

Jerry

[shgeo]

Jerry,
For smaller blades, I use an oil quench. (I found that large thin blades tended to warp in the oil) I have been using Turco from K&G to coat the blades and go straight from the oven into the oil long enough to turn black, then pull them out to finish cooling in air. As soon as they get to room temperature, I put them on dry ice overnight. The next day I triple temper at 400?F. I harden at 1870?F. I came up with this with the idea of trying to limit carbide size, as well as converting the remaining austenite. I have not done any empirical work, to analyze the results, but practical use has seemed to bear it out.
I have gotten very consistent results (HRC 60+) according to intermittant HRC tests at a local machine shop. I also test each one with Nicholson thread file (triangular) which fails to mark them.

Edited to add: I got this heat treatment from the Bohler/Uddeholm North America website:
http://www.bucorp.com/Products/ColdW...ts/aisi_d2.pdf

[Jerry Shorter]

Steve, thanks for the info and link, gives me enough to experiment with. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Jerry