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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 02-01-2015, 11:51 AM
jdale jdale is offline
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worst sound in knifemaking

I Quenched the blade, brought it to the cooling area took one step and heard the "tink". It was 1084 forged with a distal taper normalized 3x ground to 400 grit to ensure no stress risers. Heated to 1550 (the pyrometer could be to blame, it shot to 1630 once I took it out of the forge). The parks 50 was at 68?f and cought on fire when quenched, however the blade color looked just like all the other blades I have quenched. Am I to assume it was the higher heat, or was it just something that was going to happen no matter what?

I am still tempering and will try to salvage something out of it. When the Japanese bladesmiths had a failure on a katana they made a wakizashi, so maybe I can can have a knife with an interesting story.

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  #2  
Old 02-01-2015, 01:29 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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The pattern on the blade makes it look like you were trying for a hamon. That would mean clay or edge quenching. Either way, differential quenching causes considerable stress in the blade (which is why those old katanas you mentioned have a curve in them). Sometimes the stress is just too much for the steel to bear. That would be my guess ....


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  #3  
Old 02-01-2015, 04:44 PM
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ricky_arthur ricky_arthur is offline
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I feel for ya Jdale. I've had that happen a couple times recently. That hurts to look at. It was going to have a very nice hamon.
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Old 02-01-2015, 04:46 PM
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GHEzell GHEzell is offline
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I've gone back to using warm canola oil for quenching 1084, after having 4 out of 6 1084 blades die a sad death in parks#50...


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  #5  
Old 02-01-2015, 05:03 PM
samuraistuart samuraistuart is offline
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I would suggest never having the scratches of your finish running perpendicular (edge to spine) when heat treating. Even at 400 grit. Run them horizontally.

1550F is technically 50 degrees too hot for 1084 quench. You should be right at 1500F. You may know that already, just wanted to make sure!

Looks like you had the Parks 50 at room temp of 68F. Just for the sake of info, Parks does recommend the oil to be above 70F, lower than 130F.

If using canola, warm to 130F. Parks is best at warm room temp.

I've had ONE blade snap during heat treat. It was W2 into a brine quench. The blade edge was ground too thin (.015"), and I had 220 grit scratches running perpendicular (edge to spine).
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  #6  
Old 02-01-2015, 06:27 PM
jdale jdale is offline
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I'm thinking it was the blades temp at quench or "just because" for the crack. I ht another blade replicating everything but the high quench temp and everything went fine. I totally forgot about the parks temp requirements, I'll have to be more mindfull of that in the future.
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  #7  
Old 02-01-2015, 06:31 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Go ahead and finish the break. See what the grain has to tell you. Like Ray said, going for a Hammon does have a built in danger of failure. One guy said his failure rate was 50%, and he did a lot.
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Old 02-01-2015, 06:47 PM
jdale jdale is offline
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Thats a good idea, I was just going to make a small neck knife from the blade but I can also learn something from this experience. I started having warping issues when quenching tip down so I only edge quench now and almost all of my blades are clay coated. Out of the 65+ blades I have finished this was the first time I cracked a blade.
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  #9  
Old 02-04-2015, 11:24 PM
jdale jdale is offline
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Ok I broke the cracked section out to check the grain the. The pics are view from the naked eye and at 10x magnification.

I sharpened the remaining blade I chopped into a pine 2x4 and a piece of lignum viate. I then chopped through bailing wire and a piece of 1/8" brass 3 times, and did an edge roll test over a piece of round brass stock. There was no edge deformation until the 3rd cut through the brass and then it only appeared that the razor edge was barely starting to roll.

What does everyone think, does the grain look ok?




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  #10  
Old 02-04-2015, 11:36 PM
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GHEzell GHEzell is offline
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The grain looks a bit coarse to my eye. Not horrible, but not ideal.


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  #11  
Old 02-05-2015, 06:16 AM
WBE WBE is offline
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I would call it horrible, and likely caused by over heating
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  #12  
Old 02-05-2015, 06:46 AM
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I concur with WBE.
Plus Parks may be a bit too "fast" for 1084.
Get heat under control and use warmed canola oil, should get much better results.


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  #13  
Old 02-05-2015, 08:18 AM
jdale jdale is offline
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Well that's just down right upsetting. I thought i had finally gotten my head around the HT especially with as good results as i did in the heat treating Kith a few years back. I think i am going to grind out a quick blade tonight, HT and break it. Maybe I need to go back and tweak my normalization process, i could very well have not reduced the grain size from when i forged the knife out.
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  #14  
Old 02-05-2015, 06:48 PM
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Kinda strange, 1084 is usually very forgiving with a little normalization. Maybe you are taking the steel to high during the normalization process as well. Temp control is the key.


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  #15  
Old 02-05-2015, 07:38 PM
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GHEzell GHEzell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WBE View Post
I would call it horrible, and likely caused by over heating
I've seen much worse...

My suggestion would be to familiarize yourself with a phenomenon called decalescence. Without precise temperature controls, this is the best way to tell when the steel is ready to quench. There is a good explanation of decalescence here, and much more can be found with a google search... there is even a very good video on youtube showing it.


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A good friend told me one time about forging "What is there not to like, you get to break all the rules you were told as a kid, don't play with that it is sharp, don't play with fire, and don't beat on that"
Wade Holloway


See some of my work.
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