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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 01-16-2010, 12:14 AM
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squigly1965 squigly1965 is offline
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Forge is a going. Take a look

This is my first real knife project. My last project, the steel was junk. So what I got here is this. It was a piece of O1 drill rod. It was 7"x0.5", now I got about half that left. And this is what I got so far. I'm pretty sure I've messed something up. Hopefully not so bad as I can't fix it. But here's a pic. I got some wood coming for the handle. But as you can see I still have a way to go.

OAL is going to be somewhere around 7" current length is 7.5"



I'm welcome to all tips and thoughts

Thanks for looking
Chris

Last edited by squigly1965; 01-16-2010 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:39 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Not being an expert at forging myself, my first forged blade has that same curve to it. From what I've seen, most everybody's first forged blade has that 'buffalo skinner' shape to it. The only thing I can see in the picture that concerns me is all the little dents in the steel. Looks like you were using the round end of a ball pein to shape the blade. That's a concern because it means that you will need to do a lot of grinding/filing to get a smooth finish. Also, it may indicate that you were unable to get the steel to move under the flatter face of your hammer and that, in turn, could indicate that the steel wasn't hot enough to forge properly. If the steel was forged too cold then you may find cracks in it later as you finish it (just as I did on my first one). O1 isn't the easiest steel to forge so you have really done well to get that far with a 1-brick forge.

Did you anneal this blade? If you just let it air cool you could be inducing stresses into the steel that will crack it. Bury it in a can of wood ash or vermiculite (kitty litter) when it's hot and let it cool slowly for at least 24 hours. After that, it will be much easier to file, drill, or grind ......


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Old 01-16-2010, 11:03 AM
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squigly1965 squigly1965 is offline
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I was using the Ball towards the end because the metal was cooling very quickly once I started hammering. After a couple hits and I would start seeing it turn gray. I was mainly tapping more than anything. Tang is the only place it has any deep pits and it's about about a .0625 thicker than I want it. So you are right lots of filing and sanding.
I filed the main shape out. And she comes out to 7.25" OAL. Initially I was hoping for this to reach 8"+ but I got anxious

Next I'm looking at running a 3x18 belt sander over it to even it out. any tips on beveling. I have files and the fore mentioned sander.

alrighty thanks

Chris

here's a pic I'll put one up after the sanding. Man those pits sure do show up dont they. They dont seem that bad. ah well.

Last edited by squigly1965; 01-16-2010 at 11:31 AM. Reason: added picture
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Old 01-16-2010, 11:29 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Using the ball was not a good idea; it is too round. Look to see if you can find a rounding hammer with one flat face and one a more rounded face. Another idea could be a 2 to 2.5 pound machinist hammer. Just about any hammer you get will need to be refaced by grind off any sharp lines and making sure the edges of the hammer are rounded over. The rounder face will move steel faster and then the flat face will take the dents out. The ability to do this will increase as you learn hammer control and the only way to learn hammer control is to hammer on hot steel. You will probably end up trying several sizes and shapes of hammers until you find the ones that you like and what operations you use them for.

Striking steel in black heat is not a good idea. Most of us do it from time to time but some of us also pay for it with a cracked blade. If you start hearing a tinny sound when you strike, the steel is too cool and needs to be returned to the fire. I'm not certain abour O-1 but some steels are very intollerant of being struck while cool.

The curve away from the edge is normal. As you forge the edge into the blade you stretch it on that side causing it to bend. Some people pre-shape the blade by curving the bar towards the side that will become the edge to offset this. I prefere to heat the steel in front of where the curve starts and straighen it out as I go. Just set the blade on the edge and tap the bar back down. You will find that a lot of blade forging consists of moving the steel this way then that way until you get it where you want it. Just go slowly and try to sneek up on the end point so that you don't overshoot where you want the steel. Moving steel back is difficult to impossible.

A quick question. What books to you have on knife making? A good library is one of the most important tools you can get.

Doug Lester


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  #5  
Old 01-16-2010, 11:47 AM
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I downloaded a few PDF's but having trouble with them getting on my portable device for easier reference and readability.

but alas i have yet to read one. I should, I know. i'll get on them today. I'm such a slacker.
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  #6  
Old 01-16-2010, 04:33 PM
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Frankallen Frankallen is offline
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I agree with doug..You really need to get some books. That's what most of us did. Good Luck. Hope this helps you!!


Here's some great books to read:


"The $50 Knife shop" by Wayne Goddard

"The wonder of Knife Making" also by Wayne Goddard

"Step by Step Knife Making" by David Boye


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  #7  
Old 01-16-2010, 05:48 PM
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i have
The $50 Knife Shop
Step by Step Knife Making

on my iTouch gonna be reading them in part today. I'll see if I can find the other one
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  #8  
Old 01-16-2010, 07:12 PM
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after further refining the shape and working on the bevel here she is. I'm going to read those book before i go any further. Plus I'm still waiting for the handle material to show. I think maybe I made the blade to long. IDK we'll see once i get the scales on/not going to worry about the last few minor pits. I dont want to take any more metal off and they will be hidden by the handle anyway. it may seem lazy but they aren't nearly as bad is it looks in the pic



oh and i luckily didn't find any fractures. i did find a spot tho where the edge of the hammer punched in and the metal spread over it. It's on the other side but it to will be hidden by the handles. I had forgot to round the edges of the hammer after I rounded the peen out some. That was another reason i went to the ball peen.

All and all i think things are turning out rather well.

Last edited by squigly1965; 01-16-2010 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 01-17-2010, 11:26 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Actually the blade ended up with a pretty nice shape, sort of a Nessmuk blade. It looks like the secondary bevel might need a little more work but all in all that is a pretty nice first knife for someone trying to pick things up on their own. Right now though I would suggest for the next week or so that you spend more time reading and less time at the forge. I know your budget is tight, like who's isn't, you might also want to add a video or two to your library. I would suggest Ed Cafrey's basic video, Tim Lively has a nice one to, and if you can find one, Bill Moran made a good one.

Doug Lester


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Old 01-17-2010, 12:23 PM
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What type of anvil are you using? You mention that the steel was cooling quickly. If you are having issues with your anvil robbing the heat from your blade, Id suggest getting a block of scrap, large as possible and will still fit in your forge. Heat this to bright red, and lay on your anvil, until all color is lost, repeat. Do this until the block can sit on your anvil for a bit without the color being sucked out immediately. Preheating your anvil will save you a LOT of time. Just remember that your anvil is a giant heat sink and that it will pull available heat from whatever it contacts until it is the same temperature as the pieces it comes in contact with.

I have 2 blocks that are 4"x4"x12"long while one is heating, the other sits on the anvil, Ill get this process started when I first get to the shop, while Im getting everything ready.

Hope this helps.

God Bless
Mike


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Old 01-17-2010, 12:41 PM
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Mike, apparently you haven't been following Chris' adventure too closely. He's got a 1-brick forge and a big chunk of stainless for an anvil. No doubt at all that you're right though, the anvil is stealing the tiny bit of heat he has. Maybe he should just turn his torch on his anvil for a while before he heats his steel ....


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Old 01-17-2010, 03:02 PM
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squigly1965 squigly1965 is offline
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I do plan on taking a bit of time off to do some reading. I've been quite lucky so far.

I'll see what i can do about getting the videos mentioned.

The only thing I plan to do. Is finish the handle until i get at least one of the books under my belt

thanks for the tips every one. Oh and I'll see if I can get my anvil warmed up
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:08 PM
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DiamondG Knives DiamondG Knives is offline
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My apologies, for speaking without reading

One thought would be to practice the Japanese smith style, where they hold the blade off the anvil until striking, must be a rhythm thing but Ive never been able to do it effectively.

Im afraid that if you have a fairly large chunk of steel it would be a long process to get it up to heat, but do not get discouraged! I use to forge in a hole in the ground with a shop vac for a blower burning 2x4 scrap and a piece of a broken headstone that I got for free as an anvil!
If you have the passion and the desire (which you obviously have) all things will come in time.

Keep posting pics, great job so far!

God Bless
Mike


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Old 01-17-2010, 10:27 PM
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squigly1965 squigly1965 is offline
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No prob Mike. Your advice was good for future reference. Yea my Anvil is a 50 lb calibration weight
I'll try the Japanese style. Maybe it will suit me.
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  #15  
Old 01-25-2010, 09:11 PM
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squigly1965 squigly1965 is offline
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Ok I've been doing alotta reading and Now i got just a couple questions about Heat Treating and Hardening.

Here we go.
I will be doing two 7" long blades. How much oil do I need. Would it be better to harden them one at a time? How close to having an edge should I be, before Hardening? Is there anything else I should remember or consider when doing this?




oh and I wasn't able to find anything on the Japanese hammering technique. But this is what I have been doing and it seems to be working. I keep the Metal raised off the anvil. Only by the force of my striking does it come in contact with the anvil. I try to keep it about a half inch off the anvil. To clarify I do not set the metal down with each hit. I make the hammer push it down. Kinda I guess in similar fashion how the Japanese do Tattoos.
alright just wanted to put this up there to get some feedback on it

Last edited by squigly1965; 01-25-2010 at 09:19 PM.
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