In what order?

[C Craft]

I see this question often asked in vaying degrees?
I am new to the knife bussines too and am just playing with switching from reduction method to forging. So far I have been using the steel of a two man saw to make blades,, which really hasn't required a heat treatment and such, to turn out an average knife, that will hold an edge fairly well. But I am now ready to stepup to the next level in my knifemaking.

So here is what I am proposing that some one with a lot more knowledge than me explain the steps in the knifemaking process. I know some of you just said, "what a dumb a$$ , but on the other hand there is a bunch who just turned up the volume"!!!They just don't want to admit it it.
I heard someone on one of the forums make a statement that I know was totaly wrong and no one corrected his process. Some of us don't have the chance to learn from someone else's mentoring, we are just stumbling are way through it! Some will make and some won't but throw us a bone now and then and tell us where we are misinformed!

Lets say you just annealed you metal if necessary, and have shaped your blade by reduction or you just finished forging, that kind of puts both processes on an even keal.

The next step is the heat for the quench. Which I understand varies according to the metal you are working with, as for heat and type of quench.

After finishing all the rough fitting of the various componets that make up your knife you are working on, then comes heat treatment for the blade. I understand this too is based on the metal you are working with. But this is where I began to get confused when I hear terms such as normalizing, and spine quench. Am I out of sequence with these term, and give me a little quick lesson on using them.

After the heat treatment it's time for a final edge and final polish and assembly.

Some of you seasoned vetrans want to take a shot at explaining this. I am sure it seems so simple to you all but remember, wheter you learned it on your own or wheter you had some one to mentor you, it wasn't all that simple when you started either!!!


Now I can make a good looking knife but if it won't hold and edge or the steel is brittle then it ain't no good!!!! I also realize that some of that is a learning process I will have to go through too.
I just want to make sure I am doing the proper steps in the proper sequence. Since I have never been taught the proper steps in the proper sequence I am asking something that I think many out there are afraid to ask, spell it out in a simple step by step process. Then allow me to make my own mistakes
Oh well time to post this, I learned along time ago it is a whhole lot easier to learn from others mistakes when possible and never be afraid to say I am not sure I understand what you are talking about. Heck, thats the only way we learn!!!!!!!

[SVanderkolff]

I am not sure I follow your question, a bit heavy on the commentary, but here goes.
1. forge or grind to shape
2. finish to pre heat treat level (varies wildly by maker)
3. heat treat
4. temper
5. finish to final
6. assembly
7. final edge

This is a real basic list so feel free to request expansion on any or all points.
Steve

[C Craft]

Thanks Stephen, and sorry if it seemed a bit heavy on the commentary side! I usually say what I mean and sometimes it offends people. I don't mean to offend anyone. I am just at a loss for certain information and I have had some that did try to make you feel like a dummy for not understanding. However I will be the first to say most knife makers are great about answering questions!

I think where I am getting lost is somewhere between steps 3. and 4. Can you explain in a little more detail from one step to the other step. I understand that all these processes vary, depending upon the metal you are using. Just kind of give me a for example with a particular type of metal. I am some how getting those two procees confused in my mind!

Can you explain where the normalizing process comes in, I heard some one say that was the same as annealing?
Also have heard folks talk about drawing back the spine with a torch. Can you explain those two terms and where they fit into the process.

Thanks for you help and I really didn't mean to come off to heavy. I just feel that if some of the vetrans out there will chime in, it might end alot of misconceptions floating around the various forums.

I checked out your web site and you have got some fantastic work on there.

[NJStricker]

Originally Posted by SVanderkolff

I am not sure I follow your question, a bit heavy on the commentary, but here goes.
1. forge or grind to shape
2. finish to pre heat treat level (varies wildly by maker)
2.5 Normalize 3x to reduce stress
3. heat treat
4. temper
5. finish to final
6. assembly
7. final edge

This is a real basic list so feel free to request expansion on any or all points.
Steve

I added 2.5--normalizing. If you forge, most forgers will recommend normalizing to reduce stress in the blade the results from the hammering/deformation. Some will even recommend it after stock removal.

[willied2111]

I can only help with one question. I will be waiting for the rest to be answered as well.
between the heat treat and temper there are no steps. heat... quench ... temper.
I use mostly 1095 steel so I will use that for an example:
Heat to non magnetic (1450 deg i think it is)
Quench in oil.
Strait into 400 deg oven (that is the temp I use may not be the best one for what you want out of a knife or for other types of steel) for 2 hrs.
Out of the oven cool until room temp. back into oven at 400 for 2 more hrs.

I post this to try to help you but also hoping I get corrected if I am wrong.

[C Craft]

On the # 2.5 Normalizing

This is one of the terms I keep hearing but I am not sure I uderstand the meaning.
Please explain the how to on the normalizing process and the results you want to gain by doing it.

I know this where I am lacking the knowledge, is the Metallurgy part of the process! I learn well by watching others but I got no one to watch so I have got to ask questions.

[willied2111]

edit: I got beat to the question

[SVanderkolff]

Actaully I am pretty sure that the normallizing process is used more in the forging side and therefore I can't help. I do not do anything that would be considered normallizing but then I strictly do stock removal.
Steve

[NJStricker]

Originally Posted by CRC

On the # 2.5 Normalizing

This is one of the terms I keep hearing but I am not sure I uderstand the meaning.
Please explain the how to on the normalizing process and the results you want to gain by doing it.

I know this where I am lacking the knowledge, is the Metallurgy part of the process! I learn well by watching others but I got no one to watch so I have got to ask questions.

Use the SEARCH option and look up normalizing. It is a topic that is occasionally discussed here, and others (see comments by Kevin Cashen, Doug Lester, and mete) can explain it better than I. Here is one past thread:

http://knifenetwork.com/forum/showth...ht=normalizing

[Ray Rogers]

There are a lot of questions being asked here but I'm going to try to supply a little focused info and leave the bulk of the answers to others.

First, forging/stock reduction isn't entirely an either/or situation. You can make a knife my stock removal and never have need of a forge but, in most cases, if you forge your blade you will also need to do stock removal. Stock removal is the way most beat up/battered/scale encrusted forged blades get cleaned up to the point where they really look like blades (applogies to the masters who may be able to skip most of this step but CRC ain't on that list).

Even after the blade is cleaned up an subsequently heat treated there is often some light stock removal necessary to clean up and finish the blade after the heat treatment.

Once the blade is completely finished or very nearly finished - at least to the point where you know that no more stock removal will need to be done - then you can worry about fitting the guard and handle to the blade. If you do these things before H/T you'll probably end up changing the size or shape of the tang slightly during clean up and the parts will no longer be a perfect fit.

Sharpening the blade is the very last step. When you sharpen the blade there is no further sanding/polishing/fitting or anything else to be done. Even the sheath, if there will be one, should be made before the knife is sharpened.

Finally, don't worry so much. Have you forged a blade yet? If not, go forge one. You'll learn more that way than from all the questions you can ask now. Just forge it to shape, heat to non-magnetic, and quench it. Temper it. Clean it up and finish it. If you can get that much working for you then you can worry about adding normalizing and other nice touches. Trying to get everything going all at once with no practical experience at anything is only going to cause you to freeze up in indecision and you might make no progress at all. The mistakes you make will allow you to ask the right question at the right time ....

[SVanderkolff]

Thank you Ray, well put.
Steve

[Al Polkowski]

Sounds what poor Mr. CRC really needs is a wet nurse. Most people do not have mentors, they just do it.


AL P

[NJStricker]

Originally Posted by Al Polkowski

Sounds what poor Mr. CRC really needs is a wet nurse. Most people do not have mentors, they just do it.


AL P

That's a bit harsh. I think a lot of new makers would/could save a lot of time and headache if they had an experienced maker available to teach them efficient ways of doing things. For the rest of us, we muddle through and make do. And ask a lot of questions here.

[SVanderkolff]

Al
We all have our own approach to learning. Some of us like to gather facts first.
Steve

[willied2111]

Stuff like this and people from NJ still wounder why people don't like them. I am with armory this is a great place to learn and ask questions.