forge buying question

[calharkins]

Anybody know anything about diamondback ironworks forges? They have a 2 burner forge that I might consider.

My buddy with the forge doesn't seem to have time to help me. He only has time for me to help him. I think I will be busy the next time he has a problem.

[Ray Rogers]

I don't know anything about those particular forges but I do know a good bit about building them. No matter what the cost of the Diamondback forges I'm sure you can easily build one cheaper and you'll probably end up with a better forge. Anyway, you should consider it , there's lots of info on building forges on my website and on many others ...

[SIXFOOTER]

I am going to agree with Ray (like I actually know anything) I have been doing a Lot of research on building my own tools, just finished my 2x72 grinder and a forge and HT oven are next. That particular forge at $375 is kinda pricy IMO. So far mine will cost something like $100 to $150 and it will be round inside to facilitate "Swirl", thats supposed to make it heat better.
Build the thing, thats part of the fun.

[Wade Holloway]

Calvin I agree with everyone here. You can build one pretty easy but even if you would rather buy one I do not think the Diamondback is the one you want. I think it is one of the ones that have the burner pointed straight down instead of point at a tangent to get a swirling pattern with the flame. Coming in at a tangent helps to keep hot spots down the to keep the temp more uniform over all of the forge. If you really want to buy one then check with Darren Ellis, I think his site is http://elliscustomknifeworks.com/ Good luck.

[Crex]

As stated above, you can build one, just stick with the proven science. It's all been worked out and simplified so that anyone can build one. The value of building your own is worth many times what "buying" one is worth. You will actually understand what makes it work, how to adjust it for optimum performance or special tasks, what's necessary and what's not, how to trouble shoot, and just truly amaze your friends and neighbors. It's almost an addiction, once you finish the first and use it awhile you'll start thinking "I could have done this or that". Stay simple with the first one, you can add/modify later.
Just stick with the simplified science.

You'll notice the word "Simple" used several times - There's a reason for it - build strong basics and understand them well before you go messing with alterations and such, when it comes to using propane and other pressurized gases. Not trying to scare or dissuade you but things can go "BOOM".
I see an awful lot of gas forges set up in shops and garages with no concern for propane leak potentials. Propane tank valves are notorious for being or becoming leaky (especially the swap-outs). Grinding sparks, cranking a car, space heaters, etc. can ignite that leaked out gas just as easy as a match. This is not inherent to any particular type of forge, homemade or store bought, it's a tank/valve issue. If something were to go badly, your insurer could refuse to payup and/or drop your insurance if he/she finds out. Periodically check your fittings, valves and couplings with soapy water just for safety and make sure you have adequate ventilation, circulation, and air exchange where ever you set up your forge.
Part of the allure to bladesmithing is the inherent dangers - stuff your parents wouldn't let you do when you were younger - play with fire, play with sharp pointy things and make lots of noise pounding on stuff. You'll hurt yourself! They were right! But......it sure is fun!
Just use good logic and common sense and you will be alright.

[Ray Rogers]

If I had known the Diamondback was a square forge I would have jumped on it even harder! I bought a NC Lowboy for $500, it was a square forge with 3 venturi burners. It got hot enough to weld a damascus billet but it had hot spots and it used a lot of propane. It also had a very small door which was OK for blades but not near enough for damascus billets.

Then, with some help from Ron Claiborne, I learned how easy it was to build a forced air forge. Literally, a large tin can and $20 worth of wool insulation takes care of the body. The hardware for the burner comes from your local hardware store. The only expensive part might be the blower but a lot of guys find blowers from hand dryers or shop vacs and make them work. I bought a forge blower for $125 and got a really good professional unit. That still made building the forge come out under $200 or there abouts. And, there is absolutely no comparison between the forge I bought and the one I built. The built forge is far, far hotter, uses less propane, and can handle a 15 pound billet with ease.

So again, if you must buy one, see Darren Ellis. Otherwise, do yourself the biggest favor you'll ever do relative to knife making (except maybe buying a KMG grinder) and build your own .....

[calharkins]

Ray, you have convinced me. I am going to build my own. Only problem is that I don't know much about gas plumbing. I have done sewer and water plumbing for years. I can do a little wiring as long as you stay dc or 120 volt ac. I can not weld even though I own a welder (nephews weld when you can catch them or they need to borrow something ).

I have 3 knives I need heat treated now. One of them is going to Afghanistan. I will send them to Bearclaw knives as he does high carbon blade heat treating. I will work on the forge when I get a little spare time. Now that you have talked me into this, I am going to need some help in terminology and what to do. Like what is the wool that you talk about? Sheep, goat, etc? I don't think so, but I still don't know .

Thanks everyone for your help and encouragement.
Cal

[Suicycle]

The wool is ceramic wool. You will need some refractory coating to keep the wool fibers from becoming airborn when in use. Satanite is popular and easy to use. I am in the process of building 3 forges. I ended up having to buy some plate for the ends of the forge and angle iron for the feet of it, but 80 bucks for enough to do 3 aint bad in my opinion. Look at chile forge to get some ideas on how I am building. I like their tool rest design and the overall look of their units.

Ray, what is your opinion on their idea of placing the burner a few inches from the top of the forge and having it point at the floor? It is in their design tips area if you are using their burners. I am thinking maybe point the burner so it is aimed more at the far side just a little above the floor. I figure their setup is good to go because the ABS school uses them now.

[cdent]

Hi Cal,
Look back at that link from Wade. Darren Ellis can set you up with the gas plumbing, as well as the other forge building materials. Once you see the stuff in person, it'll look very simple.

Good luck, Craig

[Ed Caffrey]

Cal,

I think the only way to go for a Bladesmithing forge is round. Building it yourself is a fun, learning adventure, and will help you better understand how a forge works, and why it works the way it does. The biggest difference with gas plumbing versus liquid plumbing is to check for leaks.....use pipe thread sealant on the threads, and once everything is done, put the pressure to it and use soapy water to check for any leaks at ALL the fittings. If liquid plumbing leaks, its very evident....if gas plumbing leaks (and you don't check it) the only way you will know is by smell, or Heaven forbid, something goes "BANG".

The best advice when building your own forge is to KISS.... Keep It Simple.... seems that all the forge problems that I've helped solve are when folks go crazy and try to "gadgetize" a forge they've built.... the more you overtake the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain!

[Ray Rogers]

Cal,

A forge can be built without welding, just look at the mini-forge on my website. Literally, almost any pieces of crap you have access to can make a forge body. Everybody here will help you along. It's probably better if you think of this as your first forge project rather than the only forge you'll ever make. After a little experience you'll want to improve on the next one.

Also, don't sweat the plumbing. I worried about that but all it turned out to be was screwing a few pipes together. The biggest challenge will be attaching the gas line to the burner you build and there isn't much to that. On one forge, I tapped a hole and screwed in the connector. On another, I just stuck the line in an open hole, could have glued it in if I wanted to be fancy. The rest of the plumbing will pretty much be taken care ofwhen you buy your regulator and hoses.

By all means, look at Darren Ellis' site and at the supplies he offers. Wool, Satanite are about all you must have but there is more if you want, even complete burner assemblies if you feel too antsy about it.

Suicycle,

I haven't seen the plans you mentioned but generally speaking no one who builds forges would put a burner pointed at the floor. Maybe you mis-understood or maybe the plans aren't as good as we would hope, I don't know. I do know that the floor is probably where your knife blade and/or damascus billet will be and you never, ever want your burner pointed directly at your work piece. It will just burn up the steel.

The preferred method is to mount the burner at a tangent to the round interior of the forge so that the burning gasses are forced to run around the curve of the forge body. This is the much desired 'swirling motion' you hear mentioned so often and it helps to evenly distribute the heat whereas a straight in burner focuses the heat on one location and makes hot spots ....

[Suicycle]

http://www.chileforge.com/forges_superburner_ask.html

Nope. They don't have plans, but give some ideas. They do make some nice forges, but this is the only thing I really didn't agree with, that is why I asked. Their appearance is what I am going for though.

Sorry for the hijack, but you can get some ideas too.

[pipecrafter]

If you really need help getting your forge build off the ground, take a look at this:
http://www.loneadmin.com/forge_build/Welcome.html

I made this tutorial as part of a KITH information exchange about one year ago.,

[Ray Rogers]

Now that you posted a link to the Chile forge I read their guidelines. I think they really aren't trying to recommend that the burner go straight into the forge, they just had a slightly unclear way of describing what they meant.

Pipecrafter's little forge looks almost exactly like my mini-forge that I built a few years back. The main difference on mine was the addition of a battery powered blower to create a tiny, portable, forced air forge.....

[pipecrafter]

I actually had plans to adda tiny forced air blower as well - as reflected in the bill of materials. BUT, using a MAPP gas torch, it's been perfect for heat treating smaller blades.

And, as soon as I was finished with it, I was wishing for a larger one. I have two of the disposable helium tanks that I salvaged form the neighbors' garbage that are going to get joined and equipped with a forced air burner. As soon as I can find the time to actually do it, that is....