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Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making.

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  #1  
Old 10-28-2004, 09:29 AM
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Drac Drac is offline
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Question Does metal have a grain?

Hi,

I was wondering on when I lay out blades to grind if there is a grain I suppose to follow? I've read about the various grains and aligning that takes place during a forging processes and since the rolling of the bar stock (at least to dumb little me) seems like the forging. Sometimes to make the blade fit the stock I cock it a little off to the side. Does it change the structure of the blade when I don't have the blade in alignment with the bar?

If I'm taking the time to use the best steels I can find and have the steel heat treated by a professional, I'd hate to be ruining everything by a little mistake.

Thanks for your help,
Jim

Last edited by Drac; 10-28-2004 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 10-28-2004, 12:42 PM
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mete mete is offline
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There are sometimes some directional differences in steel and normally you would align the blade with the rolling direction but if you angle it a bit don't worry .Different properties in different directions is called anisotropy !A new big word for your vocabulary.
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Old 10-29-2004, 09:53 AM
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Gary Mulkey Gary Mulkey is offline
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Jim,

The only steels that do not have a directional grain that I know of are the CPM steels. With them it doesn't matter how you cut out the blade. Otherwise, you should keep the grain running lengthwise in the blade for strength. One important thing to remember is that the longer you make knives the more or a reputation you will build. You definately want this to be the best that you can and to make every one as alike as possible in performance. People will depend on this level of performance and it will gain you the repeat business that you want. No more than you will spend on each knife for steel, I would recommend that you always cut them out the same way. If you end up with a piece that won't make the knife you want at the time, save that piece for a smaller one in the future.

Gary
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Old 10-29-2004, 11:27 AM
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Thanks for both your answers. I should have mentioned that for the most part I do use S30V so I guess I'm safe that way. I occasionally use ATS34 and Damasteel (isn't it a particle product like RWL?) Metal is cheap compared to a rep. I can get more metal like you said Gary.

Mete, thanks as well. Since there is a grain I'll try to follow it. A couple experement knifes have been a bit more than a little of center. I wasn't sure if the grain they were talking about was a crystal issue in forging and heat treating or something people who grind had to worry about.

Thanks again,
Jim
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Old 10-30-2004, 09:47 AM
cactusforge cactusforge is offline
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OK, this has raised a question about where and what we are getting for steel? If you get steel from Admiral and other places a lot of it is sheared off sheet or plate. Which way is the grain going and does it really make that much difference if the blade is forged? If the blade is stock removal? Gib


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Old 11-03-2004, 09:19 AM
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Gib,

I live in the Dallas/FT Worth area so I just order directly from Crucible. If I keep to standard thicknesses I can get bar stock, but when I was asking about 5/8 for integrals I was told I would get sheared stock. Crucible tries to keep their prices for direct buys comparable to their competitor?s prices.

Jim
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Old 11-03-2004, 04:51 PM
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Gary Mulkey Gary Mulkey is offline
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Gib,

When you forge the blade, you are going to destroy the grain pattern of the steel so it is not as critical to have lengthwise grain to start with as it is with stock removal blades. Each time you strike the steel with a hammer the grain will take a circular pattern around each hammer strike.

Gary
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