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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 01-13-2014, 06:36 PM
RJO RJO is offline
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Did I Screw Up?

Propane forge wasn't gonna work out, so I bodged one together with a steel bowl, some charcoal, a bit of scrap wood, and a hair dryer. THAT turned out to work terrifyingly well, and I had no trouble getting my lil 1080 blade non-magnetic. I had a pot of warm vegetable oil to use for the quench. Not ideal, I know, but I figured it was a safer bet than water. I heated the blade up, checked it with magnet, then quickly dunked it in the oil, aaaannnnnddddd.... Not much happened at all. Little sizzle, little puff, no fanfare. I left it in there for a minute or two, then popped it in the oven to temper around 400.

Before I cooked the blade, though, I ran a file over the edge area and was dismayed to notice that it seemed to be biting the metal, which I gather it shouldn't if it's been properly hardened. I'm a little concerned that I'll pull it out of the oven later tonight and have nothing better than I started with Any thoughts on this? ... Related, how forgiving is steel? I mean, as long as I don't crack the blade, could I just re-normalize/anneal it and keep swingin' until I do it right?

Anywho, here are a couple mock-up shots of the unfinished knife before I burned the crap out of the blade. I'm shooting for sort of a rustic-woodsy look. The quarter isn't super-functional as a guard, but anything larger would only get in the way on this knife. Handle is finished with glossy CA grain-textured for grip, and the pin(s) will be 1/8" stainless rod. The eventual sheath will be basswood. Blade will probably have some kind of forced patina finish... haven't decided, really.
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  #2  
Old 01-13-2014, 06:59 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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1080 is a very forgiving steel which is one reason why we try to start all the new guys with it. So, if you need to re-do the HT then just re-do it. But, its difficult to know what kind of HT you got if you don't test the steel including breaking it. The file test indicates you might not have gotten the blade hard enough, breaking it to see the grain and HOW it breaks will tell the true story. But, of course, you don't want to break it because you already have so much work in it, yadda yadda. OK then, take some other pieces of 1080 and do a very careful HT on them, test them with the file, and break them and see what you have. A very fine grey grain is good, big lumpy grain is bad. Wear eye protection when you break these pieces and bend them slow and steady to break them, don't hit them!

From your description you may have gotten the steel too hot (big lumpy grain). The trick is to catch the steel at the point where it turns non-mag and let it go for just a few seconds longer with the intent of getting about 50 degrees beyond non-mag without EVER letting it get any hotter than that, then get the blade in the quench within about 2 seconds from that point. This takes practice which is why you want to get the process down before you start trying to do it with a blade. It also takes consistent, controllable, repeatable performance from your forge which is why we mostly stay with propane forges.

Finally, I'll increase my wet blanket quotient by pointing out that coins are illegal to deface. I doubt the Fed will descend on your house this afternoon but I wouldn't get in the habit of using quarters for guards if you plan on distributing your knives out into the world. We all use coins now and then but mostly we mash them beyond recognition ...


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 01-13-2014 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:57 PM
RJO RJO is offline
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At this point I'm thinking I just might not have quenched the blade hot enough. It went from the coals to the magnet, then straight to the oil with no reheating. It was chilly out tonight and the blade's only 1/8" thick, so I suspect it probably cooled quite a bit in that time. The front part of the blade seems hard, but the back side closer to the tang is still dead soft.

As for destructive testing, I think I'll come up with some sacrificial 1080 test monkeys. This blade really took surprisingly little work to make, but it's not like it'll evaporate if I don't do something with it right away. I might as well practice and learn with more steel and finish this one later, or at least wait until I have more optimal heat-treating conditions.

On that note, I fly back to school tomorrow and I think our fabrication/machine shop might have a controlled oven I could use for HT. If so, finishing it off there should be much easier than my backyard hell-spitting contraption. As a final last resort, I could still just mail it off and pay someone to do it for me. Less fun, but definitely better for the knife.

Thinking positive, my jacket now smells just like a campfire
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:10 PM
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MVPeterson MVPeterson is offline
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I agree with Ray ... file should skate across the hardened steel. As for the rustic-woodsy look, I think you nailed it, looks good. I think I was going for the "prison shank" look on my first knives..... Luckily I've improved a little since then.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:23 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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I agree that it a nice looking knife. You might not want to break your first knife but nothing helps like making a blade to test to destruction. I'm going with you didn't get it hot enough. Getting the blade up to non-magnetic and holding it there for a short soak requires that you pay attention to the shade of the steel. I like to hold for about one minute with something like 1080. Even cementite require a bit of a soak to get it to release it's carbon into solution with the austinite. That could be a bit of problem with the steel not hardening but I think that you're on the right track that it cooled too much while you were checking it with the magnet. I always return it to the forge to heat it back up just a little and then go straight to the quench.

Doug


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Old 01-15-2014, 07:03 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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***As for destructive testing, I think I'll come up with some sacrificial 1080 test monkeys. This blade really took surprisingly little work to make, but it's not like it'll evaporate if I don't do something with it right away. I might as well practice and learn with more steel and finish this one later, or at least wait until I have more optimal heat-treating conditions.***
This should have happened first, not after the fact. Impatience seems to be the norm for newbies. I'm not sure how one can read all the information out here on basic knifemaking techniques, get most of the high points sort of right and not see that testing, trial and error as major important parts to the equation.
Not picking at you RJO....just a general observation.

Guess it's the "You have to stick your finger in the fan to see if it's really running." syndrome.

I go through this with new students all the time. If they persist after taking the first class, the second is their last with me. Life is just too friggin short.


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