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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #31  
Old 11-01-2016, 11:35 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmontg View Post
Is it dark brown from Tempering Kyle? Did you grind a shiny spot on it and it's dark brown?

It doesn't have to flame up Kyle, that's the point of a fast quench. If it was Orange hot you were close to 1475 degrees for O1 and it does need to be held there for 5 minutes, but in a forge that's not really possible unless the forge is close to the right temp. Orange hot and quenched you are near max hardness at 65RC. The final quench determines the final hardness. Not knowing where your temp would be is why I said temper at 375 first. Then grind a shiny spot on it and take it to a cardboard color, or light brown at 450. You should be at or near RC 60. Check the blade after the first temper and watch as a file skates over it, but the second temper a file should just barely bite into it.
It is quite a light brown from tempering. You can see the color it is in my pics on the tang as it was not heat treated. I tempered at 400? and buried it in the sand as our oven seemed to fluctuate a bit according to the thermometers it bounced between 390? and 410?.
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  #32  
Old 11-01-2016, 11:47 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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Ray, when I do the second temper I will only do 1 hour. I will try and sharpen the blade tomorrow and test it on a brass rod. The edge seems pretty hard but judging from the way it looks the back 1/4 of the blade right by the tang as well as the spine did not get as hot as the part by the tip.

These pics are after tempering at 400. You can see the color of the temper on the tang.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxh...w?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxh...w?usp=drivesdk

Last edited by gkyle840; 11-01-2016 at 11:53 PM.
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  #33  
Old 11-02-2016, 12:15 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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I did the brass rod test after I got the blade hair popping sharp. it seems like the edge deflects slightly and stays deflected. it looks like it has a small burr on the parts that were contacting the brass rod. I chopped about 1/4 of the way through a 2x4 and it doesnt look too bad. it definitely has deflected from that though as it will only cut hair going one direction now. does this mean HT not hot enough?
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  #34  
Old 11-02-2016, 12:29 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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I'm not qualified to give advice but I've had some luck with 0-1. And as others have said, I quench in 125? Canola oil then while it is still warm to the touch, wipe it off and immediately go into the oven at 425?.
There is no need to temper in sand, just lay it on the oven rack and use a known accurate thermometer to hold the temperature. Don't trust the oven setting.


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  #35  
Old 11-02-2016, 12:39 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Originally Posted by gkyle840 View Post
I did the brass rod test after I got the blade hair popping sharp. it seems like the edge deflects slightly and stays deflected. it looks like it has a small burr on the parts that were contacting the brass rod. I chopped about 1/4 of the way through a 2x4 and it doesnt look too bad. it definitely has deflected from that though as it will only cut hair going one direction now. does this mean HT not hot enough?
Just saw this. When I sharpen up the 0-1 and do the brass rod test, if I really bear down the edge deflects and springs back, but the very, very finest edge will occassionally stay bent. I've dinked around with it and resharpened, scratched my head.

In the end, I sharpened it up, and push-sliced through newsprint, then chopped repeatedly into hard Maple, batoned cross-grained through a piece of red oak, whittled down a 2x4..did this several times then it still easily sliced newsprint and shaved hair. The edge was just fine as well, no bends, curls or chips.

So I shrugged my shoulders and move on. I believe the brass rod test is intended to see if the edge will deflect and spring back without staying bent of chipping. Not sure that applies to the finest razor edge. I'm not sure that will spring back but certainly you don't want it to chip. I see no need to use a knife as a prybar or anything other than what a knife was designed for and cutting brass rod is not an intended purpose.(Yes, I know we don't try to CUT the brass)

Any single test doesn't necessarily define the quality of a blade in my opinion.

And for what its worth, the knife I tested as mentioned above I used just this week to field dress a whitetail deer, then I completely deboned and butchered the deer on my pickup tailgate. The knife still pops hair without even a touch up on a stone.

As I said, that's what it's intended use was for.

If you sharpen it, whittle a 2x4 and can aggressively chop hardwood without chipping or bending and still maintain an edge then I'd say your edge is good. Unless of course, you plan to use it for cutting brass rods.


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Last edited by WNC Goater; 11-02-2016 at 12:45 PM.
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  #36  
Old 11-02-2016, 12:50 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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I will go out and touch the edge up and finish chopping the 2x4 and post a pic of it. I am not sure if the burr I am getting from chopping the wood is acceptable or not but afterwards it definitely was no longer hair popping sharp. there was definitely no chipping anywhere though.
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  #37  
Old 11-02-2016, 01:12 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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Here is the blade after I sharpened it. It has no visible burrs on it.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxh...w?usp=drivesdk


Here is the blade after chopping about 1/4 of the way through a 2x4
There are definitely visible burrs on the edge though hard to see well in the picture.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxh...w?usp=drivesdk
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  #38  
Old 11-02-2016, 01:29 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Goater is correct that the brass rod test isn't an absolute guarantee that the HT is good but it may be about the fastest way to get a clue to the success of the HT and that seems to be what you wanted. Real world use, again as Goater suggests, is pretty much the defining proof.

It is difficult to tell from your pictures but between them and you description of how the blade acted I would guess that the edge is a little soft (or, at least, a little softer than I would want it to be). That does not automatically mean that the HT wasn't hot enough - you would have to break the blade and see the grain before you would know that. It could mean the tempering temp was too high, or that the blade cooled too much before you got it into the oil, the oil was too cold, or possibly even that the HT temp was too high. Lots of possibilities. The correct way to find out would be to do nothing but HT samples of your blade steel, break them, and keep doing so until you know exactly how to get the results you want using the equipment you have - all of this before you try making a knife. And, that process would go a lot easier with 1084 than it will with O1.

Still, as I said earlier and Goater affirmed, O1 will make a very serviceable blade if you even get in the ball park of a good HT. If 'good enough' is OK with you then you're probably there already ....


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  #39  
Old 11-02-2016, 01:41 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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For my first blade good enough is good enough, especially considering all of the cosmetic defects and the blade being a little crooked. I will get a handle on it this week and when I am able to order a lot more steel and the grizzly grinder.
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  #40  
Old 11-02-2016, 07:24 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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If you're going to order more steel get 1080 as it is better for a forge heat treat and much cheaper than O1.
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  #41  
Old 11-02-2016, 07:41 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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I was going to order 1084 from NJ steel. Would 1080 be a better choice than this?

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  #42  
Old 11-02-2016, 08:00 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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Either would be fine Kyle.
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  #43  
Old 11-02-2016, 08:13 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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Ok, sounds good. I may get 5 or 6 pieces of each just so I have extra to play with.
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  #44  
Old 11-02-2016, 09:55 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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I think NJ Steel Baron sells them in 48" pieces so you can get more than one thickness Kyle. Heck try a piece of W2, it quenches in brine water and is what the old Nicholson files were made from. Now everybody says it's 1095, but they don't actually say what they use. I just know their older files (I still have some) lasted longer than the newer ones do.
Here is a W2 heat treat chart and as you can see it's a fairly easy steel to forge HT.
http://cintool.com/catalog/Water_Hardening/W2.pdf

Last edited by jimmontg; 11-02-2016 at 10:03 PM. Reason: addition
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  #45  
Old 11-02-2016, 10:43 PM
gkyle840 gkyle840 is offline
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I checked on there website and could only find 1084 and 1095. They only sell the 1080 in bars from what I could see and I wasn't able to find the W2 at all.
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