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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #31  
Old 08-30-2015, 08:25 AM
damon damon is offline
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Originally Posted by VanceHanna View Post
5160 would be torturing myself why exactly Or did you mean D2? If you meant D2 the reason i would order it, I can get the heat treat for about 6.50 and can make up to a 10 inch knife and still get that price on heat treat. Instead of the 25+ that peters would charge me.


Both are kick ass steel from what i have read, i could be wrong here because its others opinions, but its what i have read none the less.
was referring to D2.... even annealed that stuff is HARD! and unless you have a good 2x72 grinder... not that much worth the extra abuse to yourself and tools.

anywho.... you got your mind made up on what steels you want to use so order what you want.
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  #32  
Old 08-30-2015, 05:48 PM
VanceHanna VanceHanna is offline
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Originally Posted by damon View Post
was referring to D2.... even annealed that stuff is HARD! and unless you have a good 2x72 grinder... not that much worth the extra abuse to yourself and tools.

anywho.... you got your mind made up on what steels you want to use so order what you want.

Nah my mind is not made up, Its just cheaper to have air quenched steel heat treated so ANY air quenched will work for me, If it requires oil or water quench it goes from 6.50 for heat treating to 25 for heat treating the same knife. If i make it from D2 6.50, If i make it from 1095 25.00 both for up to a ten inch blade. I was just looking at D2 because it would drop the cost of heat treating by A LOT. If i make 4 knives out of 1095 thats 100.00 for heat treating, if i make 4 knives out of D2 or any other air quenched steel 26.00 thats a 74.00 savings on heat treat cost!!

It isnt that I WANT to use D2 or some other Air quenched and my mind is no where near made up, i just really cant afford to heat treat anything other than the Air Quenched steels.

But hey im all for suggestions on an easier to work with Air Quenched Steel !!!!!!
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  #33  
Old 08-30-2015, 05:58 PM
VanceHanna VanceHanna is offline
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Originally Posted by Crex View Post
Aldo (NJ Steel Baron) runs out of steel because he sells a lot to knifemakers.......that ought to tell you something.

Learn to grind freehand and you will never need a jig or have to waste time rigging/setting one up.
(almost all the more mature knifemakers I know have and struggle with arthritis - my self included - we just grit and go.....and try not to hit those knotted knuckles on a belt.
Nah man ill stick to the jig if for no other reason than consistent repeat-ability, Free hand just aint me, and i dont mind the time it takes to set up the jig. Made a new Jig today aluminum, so it will pull heat off the knife faster and its bigger than the block of wood was, it works GREAT only problem is i had to mod the deck of the belt sander so now im waiting on the JB weld to be fully cured, just kept getting caught on the #### cut outs in the face of the deck, that will NOT be a problem tomorrow!. Yes I filled in all the divots with JB Weld to keep the Jig from catching in them. I cant see what kinda Idiot would put divots in it in the first place to be honest.


Last edited by VanceHanna; 08-30-2015 at 06:00 PM.
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  #34  
Old 08-30-2015, 06:18 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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If you want an air quenched steel I wouldn't pick D2. Most alloyed steels have several different methods that can be used to HT them but the results from each method are not equal. That's why you can buy an off the shelf knife made from S30V, for instance, and have it significantly out performed by a similar hand made blade (assuming the maker had the equipment to do what needed to be done). Manufacturers usually choose the easiest method to automate for their blades - a custom maker could - and should - take all the time they need to do the full process. After all, the HT is the part that determines the performance of the blade. All that being said, air quenching is not the preferred method for a D2 blade.

So, you could look at 440C stainless or one of its clones like 154CM - they respond well to air quenching. Or A2, by definition an air quenching steel....


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  #35  
Old 08-30-2015, 08:50 PM
damon damon is offline
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ok.... saving $$ on the heat treating..... get you some W2 and water quench it yourself. $6 worth of water will quench a LOOTTT of blades for you. learn how to check with a magnet when the steel reaches temp, and go from there.

though not as cheep as $6 of water... a gallon or 2 of oil will still be cheaper in the long run than sending blades out to heat treat. (HT+ shipping.... each time)
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  #36  
Old 08-30-2015, 09:09 PM
VanceHanna VanceHanna is offline
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Originally Posted by damon View Post
ok.... saving $$ on the heat treating..... get you some W2 and water quench it yourself. $6 worth of water will quench a LOOTTT of blades for you. learn how to check with a magnet when the steel reaches temp, and go from there.

though not as cheep as $6 of water... a gallon or 2 of oil will still be cheaper in the long run than sending blades out to heat treat. (HT+ shipping.... each time)

You have a good point, but i have no forge as of now, so i cant heat anything over 500 degrees lol. I am gonna aim to get a small forge built but its not at the top of my list right now. Plus if i send them out i can get cryo treatment as well.
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  #37  
Old 08-30-2015, 10:02 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I cryo everything simply because I can but cryo is really only useful on highly alloyed steels so if you're into saving money you may be paying for something you don't really need ...


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  #38  
Old 08-31-2015, 01:50 AM
VanceHanna VanceHanna is offline
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Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
I cryo everything simply because I can but cryo is really only useful on highly alloyed steels so if you're into saving money you may be paying for something you don't really need ...
You guys rock! Chances are i will end up with some heavy alloy type steel since i need something that can be air quenched. Thanks for the advice if i get some 1095 ill skip the cryo!
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  #39  
Old 08-31-2015, 05:21 AM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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There's always old files. Since they are already hardened you can grind them hard, and follow that up with a temper cycle in your oven to reduce the hardness to something better suited for a file. Doing it this way takes the guess work out of the heat treat. The trick is to keep them cool while grinding. Sharp belts and a bucket of water will help keep them cool.

Personally, there are only two files I will use; Black Diamond and Nicholson (in that order). All other files are a crap shoot. Since you have no source of heat for heat treating you can't test them. Also note, even the best file companies have used case hardening for some of their files/rasp. If you stay with mill files in those brands you should be ok. I average paying between .50-$1.50 ea for my files at yard sales and junk shops.
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  #40  
Old 08-31-2015, 05:28 AM
VanceHanna VanceHanna is offline
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Originally Posted by jmccustomknives View Post
There's always old files. Since they are already hardened you can grind them hard, and follow that up with a temper cycle in your oven to reduce the hardness to something better suited for a file. Doing it this way takes the guess work out of the heat treat. The trick is to keep them cool while grinding. Sharp belts and a bucket of water will help keep them cool.

Personally, there are only two files I will use; Black Diamond and Nicholson (in that order). All other files are a crap shoot. Since you have no source of heat for heat treating you can't test them. Also note, even the best file companies have used case hardening for some of their files/rasp. If you stay with mill files in those brands you should be ok. I average paying between .50-$1.50 ea for my files at yard sales and junk shops.
I have thus far used Lawnmower blades and saw blades. But thank you for the Idea. I do like re-purposing things
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