MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > Heat Treating and Metallurgy

Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-02-2012, 12:02 PM
dbalfa's Avatar
dbalfa dbalfa is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 363
file steel for knife question

I've come upon an un-cut Nicholson file blank, still in the annealed state. I can't decide if I'm gonna pound on it or just grind it. Either way, anybody have any thoughts on suggested HT once a knife is produced?

Thanks


__________________
Dennis

"..good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from poor judgement.." -Gary McMahan, a cowboy poet and good dancer.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/p...24112090995576
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-02-2012, 02:50 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,612
Assume that it's hypereutectic steel and take it up to just above non-magnetic. Maybe 1450 degrees, if you can austinize with that kind of heat control, and soak at temperature for 5 minutes. Then temper at 375 degrees at least twice for two two hour cycles and test the edge. If it chips out, grind out the chips and retemper 25 degrees higher.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough

Last edited by Doug Lester; 03-02-2012 at 02:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-02-2012, 11:49 PM
GHEzell's Avatar
GHEzell GHEzell is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 591
I can't say if this information is still valid, but at one time they were using a suped up version of 1095 with a bit more carbon. I do not know what they use nowadays, I believe the newer files are made in Brazil out of who-knows-what. I will assume your's is some of the old, good stuff (you must live around Cullman near the old factory, I'm up in Athens, howdy neighbor!). Treat it like 1095, and expect the tempering temp to be just a bit higher to get a durable edge, 450+ degrees if my memory serves me right. I made a lot of knives out of their files back in the day, and treated right they make excellent knives.


__________________
A good friend told me one time about forging "What is there not to like, you get to break all the rules you were told as a kid, don't play with that it is sharp, don't play with fire, and don't beat on that"
Wade Holloway


See some of my work.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-04-2012, 01:36 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,612
Just to revisit this. I was doing a little lite reading before turning in last night and it seems like that I should modify my recommendation on tempering to start at 400 degrees. (Ya, I know I'm a sick puppy for reading metallurgy texts to chill out with.) The reason is that if this steel is something on the order of 1095 or higher carbon W series then it will retain more austinite due to it's carbon content and you will need to get the tempering temperature up that high to trigger the second phase of tempering to get it to convert to martensite. Also there is more carbon to move out of the martensite.

I also learned by heat treating a 9260 blade how much blade geometry can effect how hard you want a blade to be. I heat treated two blades at the same time from that steel and tempered them together at 400 degrees. One blade held up to the wire test just fine but the second was left with an endentation with rolled over edges. I assumed that I just didn't have the steel hot enough when it went into the quenchant. I did it again and made sure that it was hot enough, same results, so I requenched and tempered 25 degrees lower and ended up with a good edge. So, it seems like that there is no one correct answere to how hard you need to get a blade other than hard enough to do the job.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-04-2012, 05:35 PM
Robert Dark's Avatar
Robert Dark Robert Dark is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Oxford, Alabama
Posts: 725
Bring it to me Bubba. I will caress it into a fine useable instrument of cutting magic.

Robert
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-06-2012, 10:27 AM
dbalfa's Avatar
dbalfa dbalfa is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Dark View Post
Bring it to me Bubba. I will caress it into a fine useable instrument of cutting magic.

Robert
It is a rather large blank. Likely enough for a medium sized insertion tang and a smallish EDC full tang.... I may indeed let you fondle at least part of it IF you sure and old fart is up to that kind of action?

I'll make no comment on Doug's metallurgical sickness.... but I do have one question about his observations - What aspect of geometry do you think was affecting it? It would seem thickness but could there be other things? Which blade of what geometry did the rolling?

Thanks Gentlemen for the direction. I can indeed HT with the precision needed. I do live near Cullman and it is likely that's where this came from. Probably is a good bet on suped up 1095. I'll treat it as such and see what happens.


__________________
Dennis

"..good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from poor judgement.." -Gary McMahan, a cowboy poet and good dancer.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/p...24112090995576
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-08-2012, 07:52 PM
Hayden H Hayden H is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Central Texas
Posts: 65
Is their a heat treat facility that'll take file knives? I've got around 15 blades done, it just got to dry to start my forge. Will TexasKnife in Houston take file knives?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-08-2012, 10:19 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,612
The one that had the edge that rolled was a fairly thin flat primary bevel, maybe a little less than the thickness of a dime, and then had a flat secondary bevel cut into it which evidently didn't leave enough strength behind the edge. The one that didn't roll may have been left a bit thicker on the primary bevel and then had a convex secondary bevel cut in on a slack belt which put more strength behind the edge. At least that seems to me what it was without being able to take HRc reading or do microscopic examinations of the crystalline structure.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
art, blade, edge, files, forge, full tang, heat treat, knife, knives, steel, tang


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yet another question about annealing a file? ARCustomKnives The Newbies Arena 6 11-04-2009 04:56 PM
file steel HT Martin Brandt Heat Treating and Metallurgy 11 01-27-2009 07:08 AM
Fighter from file steel jdlange Knives For Sale - Custom 3 12-23-2006 03:36 PM
old file steel question mmunds The Outpost 3 06-14-2006 09:56 AM
question on using file for blade penguin_2000 The Newbies Arena 2 04-25-2003 04:14 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:54 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved