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The Folding Knife (& Switchblade) Forum The materials, techniques and the designing of folding knives.

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  #1  
Old 01-29-2013, 08:10 PM
Charger Charger is offline
 
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slip joint spring problems

I have been working on making my first slip joint and it seems to work for a bit before it loses its action. It seems like the spring is still a spring but the first time i put it together I could tell that the back of the knife was to soft and it was deforming so i re-hardened the blade making sure the back was also hardened this time and it seems like the spring is galling and making action come to a stop. This has all been with pins in place but not peened if that makes a difference.

Could the problem be that the spring is to soft or the blade still to hard? Or could it be that the spring may be to strong for the metal?

Blade and spring are made with 1095 steel 1/8inch thick , the blade was tempered in an oven at 400 for 2 hours and the spring was tempered to a blue/purple with a torch. The spring tapers from .127" to .2 over about 1.5".

Any help would be appreciated
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  #2  
Old 01-29-2013, 08:21 PM
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Don Robinson Don Robinson is offline
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Sounds like either the spring or the blade (or both) are too soft. Similar metals rubbing together will gall unless the hardness is right.
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  #3  
Old 01-29-2013, 08:36 PM
Charger Charger is offline
 
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I would have to guess the spring must be to soft then. I would really hate to snap the spring as I don't have more metal to remake it lol. Wonder if a home oven can spring temper 1095... Its times like this i wish i upgraded my kiln to a pid or for that mater had a smaller kiln that didn't take 6 hours to get to around 1500f
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:53 AM
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Don Robinson Don Robinson is offline
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It sounds like you're confused about what "spring temper" means.

It must be fully hardened, then drawn back to proper spring temper. Yes, you can temper the spring in an oven if it has accurate temperature control, but first, the spring must be hardened.

Search the internet for heat treat specs for 1095 steel. Then see what the tempering temperature should be to obtain 48-50Rc on the spring. That's the spring hardness you want.

Please post the hardening and tempering temps. for the blade and spring here so that others can use them.

Last edited by Don Robinson; 01-30-2013 at 10:13 AM.
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  #5  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:14 AM
earthman earthman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Robinson View Post

Search the internet for heat trat specs for 1095 steel. Then see what the tempering temperature should be to obtain 48-50Rc on the spring. That's the spring hardness you want.

Please post the hardening and tempering temps. for the blade and spring here so that others can use them.
Surely a member on here already knows this information? Searching the net for such detailed information on knife making often draws a blank in my experience.
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  #6  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:02 AM
Charger Charger is offline
 
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#### didnt mean to sound like i wasnt hardening it first. I am taking it up to non magnetic and quenching it in vegetable oil just like i do with a blade. But this is the first time i have uses 1095 steel so i could be doing something wrong. It seems to harden as a file will not cut it after i harden it.

I have been hardening it with a torch and tempering the spring with a torch based on color and the putting the spring and blade in the oven at 400 for 2 hours. I have only used my kiln once to harden o1 steel and i took that to around 1500 as i recall but it 6+ hours to get up to temp for a small fixblade

Last edited by Charger; 01-30-2013 at 10:07 AM.
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  #7  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:09 AM
Craigb Craigb is offline
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I harden 1095 at 1475 for 10 minutes and quench in Parks 50 oil. This gets 65-66 RC out of the quench. Temper springs at 720 for 2 hours 2 times for 48 RC. Just test your springs and you can make temp adjustments to get the RC you are looking for.
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  #8  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:18 AM
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Don Robinson Don Robinson is offline
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Now there you go. Believe anything Craig tells you.



I don't use carbon steel for knives, so I couldn't provide a good answer..
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  #9  
Old 02-01-2013, 05:32 PM
Charger Charger is offline
 
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Seems like I have a working blade and spring now not sure for how long but I guess that is something I will find out in time lol. I guess its time to put this thing together and sharpen it and use it. I was able to temper the spring to what it is now at 550f in my home oven whether that was really 550 or even anywhere around that really I don't know. It seemed to work but i don't know about in the long run but it has not snapped yet and I have probably opened and closed it 100+ times.
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  #10  
Old 02-02-2013, 04:32 AM
earthman earthman is offline
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Have you got any pictures of the knife?

I've been using an oven thermometer to check for temps.

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  #11  
Old 02-03-2013, 07:22 PM
Charger Charger is offline
 
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Sorry I'm slow at photos but here are some i hope the size is ok I'm to lazy to do it in photoshop so i just had photobucket resize them( took me longer then if I just made a batch operation in photoshop).





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  #12  
Old 02-05-2013, 01:46 AM
Charger Charger is offline
 
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I forgot to mention that the knife is based on a set of drawings a found on bladeforum(not really sure what rules are about promoting another forum but seemed like it needed to be said not linked) posted by a member named KnifeHead and made by boseknives it seems.
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  #13  
Old 02-05-2013, 07:39 AM
earthman earthman is offline
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Well that's a pretty unusual handle shape, well to me anyway. Not really my sort of style period, looks nicely made though so well done.
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  #14  
Old 02-05-2013, 04:21 PM
Charger Charger is offline
 
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Ya a few years back I wouldn't have liked this style but over the last few years I have been using a uk pen knife and then a friction folder I made so this seemed like a good start for making my own slip joint. I wouldn't have even started using non locking knives if it didn't seem like i should try to keep within the rule for having a knife on me at school. Although I think this blade is a little long but every one i know seems to have a much larger locking knife at school but that may be because I'm a BFA sculpture student and not a history major or something.

The knife really does feel good in my hand however it isn't made to the full size of the original drawing. I think the drawing says the closed knife is 5 3/8" mine is only around 4" as a result of printing out the drawing and going, oh that is undersized... looks about right for what i want though.

Its been a fun time going from cheap locking knifes to expensive(for me at the time) tactical slip joint to old school style folders and now back to a more modern still 60+ years out of style knife. I no longer see a lock as something that is needed when a knife is used right.

Last edited by Charger; 02-05-2013 at 04:24 PM.
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