Hastelloy..yes..no?

[Bill Vining]

I have come across a source for Hastelloy. The price is right.....FREE. Are there any uses for this steel in knifemaking? I know this stuff is real tough but having no knowledge in Metalurgy, the data sheets don't mean to much to me.
Thanks

Bill

[RJ Martin]

Cigarman: I have not used this material personally. However, considerint it's free, you should get a piece and try to grind a blade from it. My recollection is that it's somewhat brittle, and very hard to grind. Still, could make a good small blade.

[TexasJack]

There are a number of different alloys under the Hastaloy name. They are all high-performance corrosion resistant materials and very expensive. I did a quick search and looked at some vendor info. No where do I see the stuff being touted for knives or tools. It work hardens and doesn't heat treat, which is bad for knife making. Too bad because it says this stuff can be over 90 Rc!

Since the stuff you have is free, and since it is so corrosion resistant, maybe it would be good for bolsters or something. Maybe one of the metallurgists out there can flesh this out more. Just my $0.02.

[RJ Martin]

Yes, right on both counts. Very hard, no HT required. That was why I recommended making a trial blade from it. If you could obtain thin stock, it could make a kitchen knife that outcut everything. You will definitely need ceramic belts, and, plan on putting in a lot of effort at the grinder for a mediocre finish.

[george tichbour]

Two alloys in that family that you might be familiar with are Stellite and talonite but how far your Hastalloy is removed from them is the question.

[Don Halter]

I have a small piece of it as well. They make nice paperweights. Hastelloy and Zircalloy are used in reactor systems. I got some sample parts way back when i was into that stuff, but never thought of making a knife from it.

[TexasJack]

You know, Don, what crossed my mind is whether or not it would be a cool component for Damascus.

Where did all the metallurgists disappear to? Normally they're all over this kind of thread. (Probably waiting for one of us to make some stupid recommendation so they can jump in and say "Hah!....")

Maybe I just furnished it.

[Gary Hamilton]

I am not an expert but...

We regularly machine Hastalloy at the real job, primarily C-276 and B-2. These two work harden extremely quick on a lathe or mill if the tooling is even slightly worn. Once work hardened we will not even try to drill it. I am not sure how grinding would effect it, but I would keep it cool. If you have a type of material, I should be able to get you additional info steel. Pretty high nickel content if I remember correctly so it may not be great for an edge retention. There is also Hastalloy X which I think is used in aircraft engine parts. It can handle very high heat without warpage. Hast X typically is not welded but nickel brazed.

OK, I have exhusted, my knowledge and posted a few assumption form my experience. Hope it is useful.

[Quenchcrack]

Yep, we are on this thread like white on rice! Actually, hasteloys are mostly nickel, molybdenum, and chromium. Not much iron and almost no carbon. I checked out a site on the alloy group and I think that hardness should have been 90 Rockwell "B" not "C". 90 Rb is less than 22 Rc so this is pretty soft. As said before, this is heat and corrosion resistant material but it would probably make good guards, pomels, etc.

[TexasJack]

Yup, they are predictable!

Now to stir the pot.... Quench, you say that the info you looked up indicated that Hastalloy is very soft, but that doesn't seem to match Gary's observation. What I saw indicated that the stuff work hardens. (I'm trying to get the link, but it seems to be offline at the moment.) My memory is that it runs about 40 Rc but work hardens up to 90. That would be in line with Gary.

I don't know what size this free stuff is, but after thinking about it, it might make a pretty cool metal sheath (that never corrodes).

Also, Q, some of these damascus mixes use sheets of nickel - Would Hastalloy be a good substitute? Or would the work hardening make it impossible. :confused:

This is starting to get a little abstract, but the metallurgists need a challenge from time to time. :evil

[mete]

It's been far too long since I had anything to do with Hastelloy.I can't remember which alloy but we used it because it resisted cavitation erosion and wire draw problems in valve seats. I thought I'd throw in those new terms to confuse you a bit !!!

[Gary Hamilton]

I did not get a chance to pull the file or any MTRs on the stuff we are using, I will try to get it tomorrow.

On the types we are running I have not done any hardness tests on Hastalloy. When I say it is hard I am comparing it to 316L which I have seen in the mid 30's Rc after machining. The Hastalloy was harder than this but it may not have been it was 90Rc. When I think about it many of our MTRs are in "B". Another thought what is the Rc of pure molydeum(sp)? That is rather hard, exspecially if you have had it in an oven a few years and then try to machine it.

I still THINK we are work hardening the parts, but when I thought about in in the light of day, it is possible when our carbide insert begins to breakdown it smears in a hole. When we put a new insert or drill on the part we are not cutting "just" Hastalloy.

Last thought, we notice some variations between the hastalloy types we work with and as with most of metals little changes seem to make big differences.

Again, I am not an expert. I just copy big words I have seen in other post and use them regularly.

[Gary Hamilton]

Little more info to share.

I had a ton on links and files I sent to my home e-mail and NONE are there yet. So just one link on Hastelloy in general.

http://www.haynesintl.com/pdf/h2010.pdf

It can be work hardened, I did check on this. The link has more info than I will type here. The MTRs I have from the mills are below. We have purchased from Huntington, Haynes and ThyssenKrupp. We like Haynes best (it welds very smooth).

C-276
Rockwell "B" 86 surface
Grain size: No3.0-2.5 (never done anything with this but I thought it might interest others)
N 57.65, Cr 19.99, Mo 16.21, Fe 5.34, W 3.46, Mn 0.44, Co 0.35, V 0.16, Si 0.01, p 0.01, C 0.004, S 0.002

B-2 N 68%
B-3 N 67% and has a little of everything in it

That is a good idea on the damascus. Quenchcrack, I would be inetersted in your thoughts on this. I may have to acquire some shavings.

[TexasJack]

I got that site I Googled to come up again and - as Quenchcrack pointed out - the figures were in Rb. (As if anyone really doubted the great Q anyway!)

[Quenchcrack]

The Great Q? I can feel my head swelling.....

I would think this would make a decent mix for pattern welded billets. As for work hardening, remember that abrasion resistance depends upon more than bulk hardness. A good tool steel, like D2, has about 1.25% carbon and only about half of that can actually be dissolved. It forms massive chromium carbides that are harder than woodpecker lips through-out the steel when heat treated. Work hardened Ni or Cu will have no carbides in it to really improve the abrasion resistance. If you want to learn more about abrasion testing, google for "tribology".

For what it's worth, the Rockwell C scale is generally accurate to about Rc 68. Values over that are considered unreliable and require the use of microhardness testing using Vickers or Knoop scales.